Who would even consider buying one of these without being able to see and use one beforehand? I'm thrilled to see what could be solid competition in this space, but this thing is really an unknown quantity at best right now...

Maybe they feel that because others are announcing 4g ones they didn't feel there was a need for them to be in the market too?

Kidding of course, it's just plain stupid not to have theirs not be able to do anything without WiFi.

Not everyone wants another cellular device or data plan, I certainly don't. I convert my cellphone to wifi hotspot and connect my Playbook to it and use the data that comes with my phone.

Anyone saw the Surface commercial? I thought I was watching an Old Navy commercial. :p What are they thinking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8mSckyoAMHg

While that's certainly true, that's why you offer it as an option to people. Those who want just WiFi just buy the WiFi version. Those who want 3G or 4G buy the 3G or 4G version.

No, wait, in this case they will have to buy another companies product.

The vast majority of tablets (like 90%) are sold without 3G and 4G in them, but at least others are offering options for people who want it. For Microsoft to think they will take over the market with an expensive device, where a good portion of the memory is already in use, with limited expansion capabilities, and no alternative but WiFi is just plain silly.

No wait, they do have that snazzy magnetic keyboard though, that will save it.

Offering it as an option only increases manufacturing costs.

I heard Microsoft explain why they don't have a 3G version of the surface, and they said in doing their market research, only 1/3 of the tablets sold have 3G capabilities, and out of that 1/3, only 1/2 ever activate that service, so in their opinion, the market for the 3G is quite small. I haven't bothered to look and see how accurate those numbers are, just quoting them. Now certainly some of that is trying justify their decision not to offer the 3G tablet, but speaking to my own experience, I wouldn't pay for the monthly service to get a data, and have no interest in paying more for a tablet that is capable of it.

33% is something not to scoff at. Unless M$ gets a kickback from the mobile provider for every activation done, it seems like sound business sense to create a product geared towards the 33%.

43% of the Apple Ipads sold were 3g (Neilsen).

Apple shipped something like 44 million Ipads last year

Nobody in their right mind will turn down a market of like 19 million products.

The manufacturing cost argument is just silly, as they will just increase the cost by whatever it costs them to put in 3G. People are already paying over $100 for a keyboard that probably costs $10 to make, so it's not really that much of a stretch to think they could cover the cost of putting in a radio.

Microsoft is being stupid here. The issue is not how many people will buy 3g or not buy 3g.

Well nobody will buy it from them.

The issue is how many people who want 3G (and using their rumored quote it's 33% of the market) will instead buy another tablet that has it. Doesn't matter if people activate it or not, they will pay for it.

I missed the start of this thread, but PC Magazine and I are seeing eye to eye on this one.

It's only pure arrogance that makes MS think that they can charge $500 for their tablet. Anyone with $500 to spend on a tablet will by an iPad.

The most MS could possibly get for an entry-level tablet is $300 -- and it's only that high because they are Microsoft! Anything above this is a FAIL. The only question is how long it will take for MS to learn its lesson.

Actually, I'd get an Asus TF700 32GB and pocket the $130-ish (compared to the comparable 32GB iPad).

Ordered one yesterday. For a family with 2 iPads.

I'm wondering bout if it has a way to connect to a projector? It runs Powerpoint, so I assume that there is a way.

It's got an HD Video out port.

I am having an increasingly tough time trying to understand the target market for this device. True Outlook is one of their (few remaining) cash cows and the inherent limitations of this device and new ARM architecture are going to be very limiting.

I am not in the market, but if I were, I fail to understand why someone would not be all over the brand new Chromebook. Heck, even the new 3G model w/ 100MB a month is a steal at $349.

I just don't get who Microsoft is going after here, and I am not sure they are either. Windows 8 is not going to be well-received. The first thing I did with my install was find the utility to bring back a real desktop.

News Reports are that they have sold out all the pre order inventory, and the shipping date on new orders is slipping back. The stores will still have stock allocated to them for opening day.

Supposedly all models have sold out in pre orders.

I'm psyched to get one, but will wait to see the Pro and all the w8 ultrabooks. I like my ipad, but I liked my netbook, tablet laptop, etc.... time to move on.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-33620_3-57...-of-windows-8/

Making sense of the confusing world of Windows 8
Ready to jump into Windows 8? As if the switch from the Windows 7 interface to the Windows 8 way of doing things wasn't bad enough, deciding what type of Windows 8 or Windows RT device to purchase is another challenge.

A good story from today on Cnet about the very confusing choices of RT or 9 or Surface or other tablet or laptop, etc.

Not really helpful in reaching a decision, but it does list out many of the decisions people should be thinking about.

Completely unlike the alternative "it just works" OS. :D

good article, thanks for posting the link.

That article had a link to this one: Just what is Windows RT, anyway? (FAQ)

-David

Nope. I never really saw the need for an ipad. Apple failed to convince me it was something I needed in my life. To me, Apple products fall far short of what I want. Surface addresses quite a few of those issues. I'm not saying it's perfect. Like any product I'd wait for generation 2 to come out. Been burnt too many times on tech that becomes obsolete too quick (I paid the same for Psion 3c years ago).

I'm meeting a lot of youngsters that are giving up on ipads too. My 15 year old nephew asked his Dad to get him a laptop as he wanted a bigger screen to watch movies on and play games on - as well as to do his school work. A lot of his mates are passing their ipads down to infants to play with instead. I reckon if Surface had been around then, he would have asked for that because of the keyboard and Office functionality. I'm not bothered about outlook being missing as I used web based mail, even my office now does too! It's all in the cloud!!

A pretty good (and mostly positive) review of the device here

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411249,00.asp

from PC Magazine

The Microsoft Surface with Windows RT ($699 direct) is Microsoft's first entry into the wild world of tablets. Priced to compete with the Apple iPad , the Surface tablet with 64GB of storage comes with a 10.6-inch, five-point multi-touch screen. As is, it's aimed at users that want to do more than simply consuming media and websites, with innovative keyboard covers that make some of the more expensive Windows 8 tablets' docking solutions look absolutely clunky by comparison. Plus, it has an ace in the hole that makes it feel like a "real computer": The Surface comes with a full copy of Microsoft Office 2013 (Home and Student Edition). The Surface has the same user interface as upcoming Windows 8 laptops and tablets, thanks to Microsoft's Windows RT operating system. However, since the tablet uses Windows RT and a more economical ARM processor, the Surface isn't compatible with the majority of existing software made for Windows 7 and XP. This is the conundrum we find ourselves in while we look at Microsoft's first true computing device.

I guess if you need a tablet that runs the actual Microsoft Office (except for outlook, assuming alternatives don't work), Surface might be a good choice.

Did you order one?

-David

There's no way I would deal with the limitations of RT, so if I do a windows tablet it will be the real version.

My friend (the one that orders everything) ordered one. I'll see if I can get him to bring it in this week, since I'm in the "office" this week.

update: lol .. never mind, he was being sarcastic when I asked him if he ordered one.

-David

I finally got to play with a real one, and I'm still happy I pre-ordered. Very, very fast. Decent amount of apps pre-installed. Still very confused how to navigate around. Switching from "Metro" to desktop confuses the hell out of me.

I'm also worried about the number of third party apps that will eventually be available. Things like Spotify and Chrome most likely won't be available at launch, and that will hurt. Also a limited number of social apps. I do sense that a large number or RT customers will be pretty pissed off when they realize that this is not full windows. Now Microsoft has Windows Phone 7 and 8 apps, Windows 8 PRO and RT apps. Messy.

Gorgeous hardware though - puts my Transformer Prime to shame.

so what's the deal with the mail app vs outlook? did you try the mail app yet?

-David

Anandtech has a review. Pointed a lot of positive aspects but noted heavy CPU utilization typing fast in Word.

Then they ran benchmarks against a tablet featuring the latest Atom (Clovertrail?), which beat the Tegra 3 handily. If Intel can be price and power competitive, then RT may have an even harder time justifying its existence.

A roundup of some of the reviews gathered by Reuters

(Reuters) - Tech bloggers and other reviewers praised Microsoft Corp's new Surface RT tablet for beautiful design but said a shortage of applications and a slow operating system meant the result was heartbreak for users.

Microsoft begins selling the Surface on Friday, joining the fight in a tablet market dominated by Apple Inc's iPads and devices using Google Inc's Android system.

Reviewers given the product early to play with it said its first version paled in comparison with the iPad.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89N10E20121024

with links to many full reviews with headlines like

Microsoft Surface RT Review: This Is Technological Heartbreak

Don’t Call The New Microsoft Surface RT A Tablet, This Is A PC

Microsoft Surface RT: Impressive piece of engineering

here's another one, Ed Bott's hand's on.

http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-with-m...ot-7000006258/

Time to start Googling power user tips. It's awfully tempting.

That's the worry. What if the likes of Spotify, Netflix, Dropbox and Evernote never get developed for it. These apps are my cloud.

That said, the idea of being able to edit Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents in a package that's similar in form to an iPad is terribly, terribly tempting.

Ars Technica Review: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/...face-reviewed/

Microsoft's first stab at a tablet: Surface reviewed
Does Redmond have what it takes to be a tablet manufacturer?

I pre-ordered a Surface, which should be here tomorrow. I have also made a point to read every review I could find.

You are painting a very negative picture of this tablet that does not jive with reality. Actually, virtually all of your posts to this thread have been very negative towards the device.

On the other hand, Microsoft apparently ordered 5 million Surfaces for release day, and sold out within a day on their website. So much for "nobody is going to buy it".

It is not designed to be a direct competitor to the iPad. I have an iPad2 and an iPad3. They are good devices, but have limitations. The biggest one is that the lack of sufficient interface hampers their use as real business devices. I was in NYC last week and it was frustrating when I had to go online and change a flight, edit a spreadsheet, transfer some files to/from my office, etc. Poking around with a finger and no right-click and a very simplified interface is great for web browsing and watching movies, but not good at all for "real work".

The surface is designed to address that niche through a more robust OS and a keyboard. It is not the same price as the iPad because the 32GB WiFi iPad without keyboard sells for $599. The same Surface sells for $499.

The vast majority of those who actually know what they are talking about (i.e. who have used the device) seem to really like it - with the complaints being the touch keypad being finicky, and Windows RT having some quirks. And the big one is the lack of apps. There is no way to address that other than time. I dealt with it with my iPhone, my Android phone, my iPad and it will be no different with the Surface. I wager that ever day, dozens of new apps will come along.

We'll see how it performs when it shows up tomorrow. But it's clear to me that Microsoft has *already* exceeded both their and pretty much every detractors expectations by selling out within a matter of a day or so... and that was after dramatically increasing the # of devices they initially built.

Grumble...my order is not expected to be delivered until Monday :(.

So just for fun, lets review

Post #10 I said

Not really sure how that is negative or does not jive with reality

Post #12 - A review from PC Magazine saying it was too expensive. While that's negative, it's a review from an independent publication. Were the prices they qouted wrong? I think not.


Post #21 was about the different versions of Microsoft Office

Taht's just a fact, it's not negative, and it is reality

Post #24 was cut and pasted from the Microsoft FAQ's about it concering the availability of Outlook. If you believe that's negative or not jiving with reality, you should take it up with them.

Post #28 was another direct quote from the Microsoft website on the device saying

While that is most certainly a huge negative, it's not my preception, it's the reality as presented by Microsoft.

Post #37 says it has a $110 keyboard available as an accessory. Some people think it's OK for them to charge $110 for a $10 keyboard, others may see that as a negative. No matter which way you see it however, it is the reality, their keyboard costs $110.

Post #42 says I feel they are stupid for only making WiFi versions of it. Again not sure how that doesn't jive with reality unless I just missed where they said they were going to have a 3G / 4G version of it like almost every other tablet out there offers (certainly it's major competitors)

Post #48 is a discussion about the concept of adding a radio to it would increase the cost too much. Everything in that post is reality, and it's certainly not negative to say if they wanted to add a radio they would just increase the price (like everybody else does) to cover those costs.

Post #53 says it has an HD Video Out Port. That's actually a huge positive for it, and it is based in reality.

Post #55 says they are already sold out for pre-orders. That's just a fact, it's neither positive or negative (it's actually positive for them), and it is the reality.

Post #57 is a link to a CNET story about the different choices people have with Windows 7, RT and Windows 8. The reality is the operating system is totally different then what people are use to, and it is confusing.

Post #61, a link to a mostly positive review from PC Magazine.

Post #63 answers a question if I would buy one. I said no, I don't want to deal with the limitations of RT. That's not a negative, it's a fact. It's also reality, I see no use for buying a crippled system with excessive limitations when the full one is just a few months away if it was buying one

Post #68, the one you choose to quote, was a link to a round up of reviews by Reuters. In it I quoted headlines like

and

Not really sure how you consider that a very negative picture of the tablet or not jiving with reality. Reviews are reviews, if you have an issue with the reviewer please contact them directly.

So please, explain to me were you believe I've painted a very negative picture of the tablet, and Show me where it does not jive with reality in most of my posts in this thread?

Holy crap this thing rocks.

Highly recommend finding a Microsoft store and playing with one if you have a chance. If they can get enough new apps on it, they have a winner on their hands here.

That said - Surface, red keyboard cover and a spare charger - $701 with tax. That is too steep.

Alternate take:

http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-return...ft-surface-rt/

He has a good point on the Office Updates - for some reason, those are accessible outside the tile environment. Sloppy.

He also has a good point on waiting for the Pro version for his personal situation - but I personally want a lightweight machine with longer battery life. Pro sounds awesome, but it'll cost more, weigh more and last shorter on its battery. As long as most of my apps eventually make it to RT, I'll be happy.

Even though I'm a massive Android fan, I feel that Surface is in many ways lightyears ahead of what Google has done for the tablet look and feel of their devices.

Second day in - I've mastered all the gestures and can swipe my way around now. Still find it odd how the desktop mode is even around. New apps pop up daily, some lousy, some amazing.

It would have been better to have 2 Windows 8's front doors. Have Metro default as "on" to touch enabled devices. Leave it as an option for non touch, with the classic UI as the default.

Kinda the way Apple did with iOS/OSX Launchpad. :)

Waiting for a Surface Pro here, I'm upgrading my PC to Windows 8 in the mean time though so I can get familiar with it for when I get my Surface.