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Windows 8
Windows 8 hit RTM earlier this month and is now available through TechNet/MSDN as well as volume licensing channels. Now that the final release is upon us, curious to hear what others think of the finished product.
My thoughts after having played with it for almost a week are that it has some nice performance improvements under the hood and might be an interesting tablet experience, but represents about 17 steps back in usability for keyboard/mouse users. |
Originally Posted by javabytes
(Post 19155212)
represents about 17 steps back in usability for keyboard/mouse users.
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Originally Posted by Doc Savage
(Post 19155242)
Ouch. Windows Vista 2.
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Played with Windows 8 on a VM a few weeks ago... I can't stand it.
I'm a huge champion of Zune and it's UI, but I can't deal with the similar interface being applied to my entire desktop. I opened some app and I couldn't instinctively figure out how to exit the app - I think I clicked on various things and entered some key combos. I still can't remember how I closed the app (Windows key I think?) For a pure tablet experience, I think the OS could work... but I wouldn't consider putting it on my convertible laptop tablet that has a touchscreen. |
It's had a sort of Marmite reaction from people I know, they either love it or hate it. The idea that MS are trying to unify the GUI of all their OS versions is a good one, (it must be if apple are considering the same;)) but we then hit problems when things like Windows 8 appears. Some of the non techie people will run a mile when they can't see the start button and task bar and can't have a picture of the kids/grandkids on their desktop screen. Best reaction was from someone who had bookmarked a load of websites in one IE version only to unwittingly go into the other one and find that they weren't there.
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Originally Posted by N830MH
(Post 19155335)
What?!? There is no Windows Vista 2.
Regards |
Originally Posted by Doc Savage
(Post 19155242)
Ouch. Windows Vista 2.
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Originally Posted by javabytes
(Post 19155212)
Windows 8 hit RTM earlier this month and is now available through TechNet/MSDN as well as volume licensing channels. Now that the final release is upon us, curious to hear what others think of the finished product.
My thoughts after having played with it for almost a week are that it has some nice performance improvements under the hood and might be an interesting tablet experience, but represents about 17 steps back in usability for keyboard/mouse users. |
Originally Posted by realjd
(Post 19159297)
I hate Windows 8. When I have to turn to Google after spending half an hour trying to find something as basic as the Control Panel, the interface is broken. Double so since I couldn't easily figure out how to turn it off.
Sounds like someone doesn't like change. It sounds like you are saying that Microsoft should stick with the status quo even though users defecting to Google and Android tablets and phones is clearly telling them that the status quo is broken. Those on Apple's and Google's OS, are you trying to tell me you never had any growing pains when learning their OS? I know I did on both. I believe change is good, and change is necessary for Microsoft/Windows, and now that I've embraced the change, it is easier to use Windows. I've been using Windows 8 since the early consumer preview, and have to say, now that I've adjusted to it, its much easier to find things. I have been able to find everything I wanted by simply hitting the windows key and starting to type what I want (windows + control panel). |
Originally Posted by rybob1
(Post 19160022)
Sounds like someone doesn't like change. It sounds like you are saying that Microsoft should stick with the status quo even though users defecting to Google and Android tablets and phones is clearly telling them that the status quo is broken.
"Let's apply the features of a handheld device to the desktop." Brilliant. |
Originally Posted by rybob1
(Post 19160022)
I know I'm turning into the resident Microsoft fan boy, but I can't stop myself...
Sounds like someone doesn't like change. It sounds like you are saying that Microsoft should stick with the status quo even though users defecting to Google and Android tablets and phones is clearly telling them that the status quo is broken. Those on Apple's and Google's OS, are you trying to tell me you never had any growing pains when learning their OS?
Originally Posted by rybob1
(Post 19160022)
I know I did on both. I believe change is good, and change is necessary for Microsoft/Windows, and now that I've embraced the change, it is easier to use Windows.
I'm all for change if it improves things but what MS are trying to do is impose the Multitasking can I have more than two apps/programs open at the same time in Metro, yes I can. Can I have them on the screen at the same time no I can't, which is a b*gger when you are trying to multi task in the same way as I do on my XP laptop (+ at the moment a second screen) that I'm writing this on. I currently have two firefox browser windows open, Thunderbird, a notepad and VLC playing music (I've just closed WinTV).
Originally Posted by rybob1
(Post 19160022)
I've been using Windows 8 since the early consumer preview, and have to say, now that I've adjusted to it, its much easier to find things. I have been able to find everything I wanted by simply hitting the windows key and starting to type what I want (windows + control panel).
Originally Posted by rybob1
(Post 19160022)
"simply hitting the windows key and starting to type what I want"
EDIT: I've just noticed from your signature that you've written an app and that requires more skill than a lot of consumer computer users have. For you it might be easy to adjust to a new OS and all the quirks but you're in a small segment of the computer using public, not everyone is that adaptable that quickly. |
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Originally Posted by Doc Savage
(Post 19155242)
Ouch. Windows Vista 2.
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I don't think gonna like that. The Windows 8 is a terrible. Because they doesn't have start button & icon tasks, too.
Please read the link: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/10/23...8-baffles.html |
Originally Posted by Jimmie76
(Post 19160892)
However saying to users that they are going to be forced to use this tablet OS on their desktop machine where the primary interface isn't going to be a touchscreen is a huge gamble.
The problem for a lot of people 46% of them (and the largest desktop MS OS in use) is that they are still on XP (this includes some corporates) and this new windows is a world away from that. They are just getting ready to upgrade to a new computer and will have to learn how to do everything again. If you've ever worked in a technical support role you'll know how frustrating it is when a user calls up with the easiest of things to do, but they can't do it. So you do user training sessions where you introduce the new OS to staff and get them to ask any questions there and then. The problem is that for the switch from 95 to XP wasn't that difficult for non technical people to master, XP to vista or 7 again wasn't a giant leap it was evolutionary. This is now revolutionary and the last thing many corporates need given the economic conditions is to have to spend time and money training staff how to use their new desktop computer. I'm all for change if it improves things but what MS are trying to do is impose the Cheers. |
W8 downgradable. Sound familiar?
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Windows XP was released eleven years ago tomorrow
They stopped selling it in June of 2008 They will continue to upgrade it and support it until April of 2014 Last month, September, was the first time in ages it was not the operating system in use on the majority of windows based computers (just passed by windows 7 by one half of one percentage point) So there's no huge rush for anybody with any current system to upgrade, however those purchasing something new may not have as many choices. |
I have been skeptical too. But I am willing to give it a try. They are being smart about rolling it out at a pretty low price (for the upgrade version anyway). I have an old-ish laptop running Vista that has been nothing but pain. So it is a good test bed for Windows 8 I think. It's a Lenovo X301 with an SSD.
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Originally Posted by tearex
(Post 19155571)
Played with Windows 8 on a VM a few weeks ago... I can't stand it.
I'm a huge champion of Zune and it's UI, but I can't deal with the similar interface being applied to my entire desktop. I opened some app and I couldn't instinctively figure out how to exit the app - I think I clicked on various things and entered some key combos. I still can't remember how I closed the app (Windows key I think?) For a pure tablet experience, I think the OS could work... but I wouldn't consider putting it on my convertible laptop tablet that has a touchscreen. |
Originally Posted by glennaa11
(Post 19558304)
I have been skeptical too. But I am willing to give it a try. They are being smart about rolling it out at a pretty low price (for the upgrade version anyway). I have an old-ish laptop running Vista that has been nothing but pain. So it is a good test bed for Windows 8 I think. It's a Lenovo X301 with an SSD.
If you go to the Lenovo support site for drivers for the X301 http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/rese...cID=MIGR-70496 and select windows 7 as the operating system you will find five or six dozen different drivers. Granted no machine will probably need all of them. If you select Windows 8, they are currently listing four drivers. They are saying, for that machine In the interim, certain Windows 7 BIOS, drivers and software may work; however, the same functionality as under Windows 7 is not guaranteed. Anybody who is upgrading a current machine to Windows 8 needs to be very careful that all the drivers they need for their basic things is available, or Windows 8 includes universal drivers that will work. I for one would not want to be the first person to be upgrading. |
Well, it's a computer I am really not using anymore, so I am willing to take some risks with it. I ran the MS Windows 8 upgrade tool thing on it and the only thing that came up as a potential issue was the DVD drive. Which granted could be a pretty big issue since I'll be installing from the DVD. But we shall see.
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Originally Posted by rybob1
(Post 19160022)
I know I'm turning into the resident Microsoft fan boy, but I can't stop myself...
Sounds like someone doesn't like change. It sounds like you are saying that Microsoft should stick with the status quo even though users defecting to Google and Android tablets and phones is clearly telling them that the status quo is broken. Those on Apple's and Google's OS, are you trying to tell me you never had any growing pains when learning their OS? I know I did on both. I believe change is good, and change is necessary for Microsoft/Windows, and now that I've embraced the change, it is easier to use Windows. I've been using Windows 8 since the early consumer preview, and have to say, now that I've adjusted to it, its much easier to find things. I have been able to find everything I wanted by simply hitting the windows key and starting to type what I want (windows + control panel). I have also been using Windows 8 since preview 1 and I hate it. Yes there's change, but nothing I saw was change for the better, it was clunky, difficult to use and non-intuitive. Windows 7 represents the pinnacle of the Windows OS line IN MY OPINION, stable, fast, intuitive. This reminds me of the office 2007 to 2010 transition. No new features of any particular worth and a whole new IU to learn your way around. I am happy with W7 and have no plans to make the change. Likewise most corporations I have talked to also plan on skipping W8, so yes, it's Vista and Windows ME all over again. |
Originally Posted by timfountain
(Post 19560232)
Change for no good reason is my main issue. Windows 7 works fine for a desktop/laptop and I use a tablet for completely different tasks. The windows desktop paradigm has been around for a long time and has worked well across multiple OS's in addition to Windows. Why change? IMHO the Windows 8 UI looks like it was developed by my 8 year old.
I have also been using Windows 8 since preview 1 and I hate it. Yes there's change, but nothing I saw was change for the better, it was clunky, difficult to use and non-intuitive. Windows 7 represents the pinnacle of the Windows OS line IN MY OPINION, stable, fast, intuitive. This reminds me of the office 2007 to 2010 transition. No new features of any particular worth and a whole new IU to learn your way around. I am happy with W7 and have no plans to make the change. Likewise most corporations I have talked to also plan on skipping W8, so yes, it's Vista and Windows ME all over again. Here is an interesting article that I read today. Some non-technical folks may not be interested, but stick with it; the bottom third of the article is pretty to the point... http://www.drdobbs.com/windows/windo...h-ev/240009572 Regards |
Even though I was thinking of getting a new laptop (lighter, more memory) you all have convinced me to hang in there w/ my Vista laptop for a while vs. getting a new one w/ W8. Vista at this point doesn't bother me (heck, I went from W95 to Vista!); I just wanted lighter & more memory. I don't need some a new operating system that even the techs have problems w/.
Cheers. |
Reviews seem to say W8 is pretty good if you have a touch screen and a step backwards if you are using mouse and keyboard. Some describe it as two OS's which compete with each other.
It is a platform which breaks ground unifying smartphones, tablets, ultrabooks, laptops and desktops. ATEOTD, I'm glad I got one of the last upgrades for 3 PC's to W7. |
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 19560643)
Even though I was thinking of getting a new laptop (lighter, more memory) you all have convinced me to hang in there w/ my Vista laptop for a while vs. getting a new one w/ W8. Vista at this point doesn't bother me (heck, I went from W95 to Vista!); I just wanted lighter & more memory. I don't need some a new operating system that even the techs have problems w/.
Cheers. |
FWIW, Office also has downgrade rights. These days we have to buy office 2010 licenses, but I'd say the vast majority of my users are still preferring to use office 2007, largely to help prevent compatibility issues with people they work with. My guess is we'll still be having a large number of people using 2007 when 2013 rolls out. Win 8 on a non-touchscreen device is an exercise in futility. I'd be curious to see if I'd be any happier with it if I could test it on a touch-screen computer, but I suspect I'd still be annoyed. (Among other things, I don't particularly want to constantly be having to reach up to my monitor to touch it to do things. Oh, and I get annoyed when people leave fingerprints on my monitor. On a brighter note, if I had to reach up to touch the screen all the time, that's a couple extra calories I'd have to burn to get work done.) |
Microsoft's 'official' Windows 8 Survival Guide leaks - The Register
This is true in all cases, except where it is not. |
Originally Posted by DeafFlyer
(Post 19562320)
You could upgrade that laptop to Windows 7. I upgraded two older laptops and they work great. One had Vista and the other had XP. 7 is an improved version of Vista. Just a thought.
I just got an Asus Ultrabook that I really like. Except for one major issue...it shuts itself off at random times. I returned the first one that did it. The second one has shutdown randomly 3x in a the week I have been using it. I really don't want to have to send it back too so I am waiting to see how things progress. But it is fast, weight less than 3 pounds, 13.3" screen, 4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD. Very travel friendly. 2 USB 3.0 ports, SD card reader...even comes with a USB-RJ45 network dongle. For $900 at the Microsoft web store. It comes with MS "Signature" service which means they clean off all the crap ware before you get it which is a big time saver. And you get 90 days of free tech support. Returning the first laptop was a painless process. |
Originally Posted by pierre mclopez
(Post 19552970)
Windows 8 is the Windows Millennium of the new millennium. Or maybe it's just the new Windows Bob. Quick -- where's Clippy? |
Originally Posted by glennaa11
(Post 19566357)
Or there are plenty of laptops on the market with Windows 7. And they will continue to be available for a while.
I just got an Asus Ultrabook that I really like. Except for one major issue...it shuts itself off at random times. I returned the first one that did it. The second one has shutdown randomly 3x in a the week I have been using it. I really don't want to have to send it back too so I am waiting to see how things progress. But it is fast, weight less than 3 pounds, 13.3" screen, 4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD. Very travel friendly. 2 USB 3.0 ports, SD card reader...even comes with a USB-RJ45 network dongle. For $900 at the Microsoft web store. It comes with MS "Signature" service which means they clean off all the crap ware before you get it which is a big time saver. And you get 90 days of free tech support. Returning the first laptop was a painless process. |
For some reason I've been researching this. :rolleyes:
arstechnica best described W8 power user issues. Windows, reimagined: A review of Windows 8 - arstechnica.com Mixed-use mayhem Windows 8 provides a solid desktop experience. Its tablet experience is, in spite of the rough edges, workable, with many enjoyable parts. And as long as you stick to one way of working or the other, you can be pretty happy. Where it falls down, hard, is when you try to mix and match. Microsoft has done precious little to bring the Metro environment and the desktop environment together. They're two separate worlds. The charms, in particular, are off-limits to desktop apps. The Search charm won't search the foreground desktop app. Desktop apps can't share or be share targets. Desktop apps don't know about devices, and don't store their settings behind the Settings charm. This makes a mix-and-match approach deeply flawed. I can't even send an e-mail via Outlook from the Metro world. Outlook. Probably one of the most important business applications of all time, and Metro doesn't even know it exists. We get the same problem in reverse, too. If you use the Metro Mail app as your e-mail client, you might expect that you could right-click a file in Explorer, and then go to Send to, Mail Recipient, and for this to create a mail in the Mail app. You might expect that, but it won't work. Send to Mail Recipient can only use desktop Mail apps. How about sending someone a URL to a webpage from within the desktop Internet Explorer using the Share charm? Nope, not an option; desktop Internet Explorer can't send to the Share charm. Nothing on the desktop can. Making matters worse is that, by default, Windows 8 is configured to use this mix-and-match approach. I already mentioned things like defaulting to using the Metro Photos app instead of the desktop Photo Viewer app, so let's explore that in detail. I often get sent ZIP files of images (product photos, that kind of thing). So I unzip them all into a directory somewhere. I then want to look at them, so I double-click one of them. In Windows 7, this would open up Photo Viewer, and I can just use the arrow keys to cycle through all the images in the same directory. Quick and easy. In Windows 8, however, the first image opens up in the Metro Photo app. And here's the problem: the Metro Photo app can't view the rest of the images in the directory. Why? It doesn't have permission. It's another one of those security things: Metro apps can't read arbitrary directories on disk. They can only read files explicitly selected by the user, and files in one of the libraries (which, incidentally, can only be managed from the desktop). So instead, you open the first file, then either quit the Photo app or alt-tab back to Explorer, open the next file, then switch back to Explorer, open the next, and so on. OK, you might say, so put the folder in the Pictures library. Do that, and the Metro Photo app does the right thing; you can open the first file and then navigate to its siblings just fine, without having to flip back to Explorer the whole time. But I may not want to put the pictures in the Pictures library. I probably want to put them in the Documents library, alongside the PDFs, Word documents, and Markdown files that comprise a piece of work. But if I do that, the same problem occurs. The Metro Photos app can't read from the Documents library. It's only allowed into the Pictures one. The separation also makes the Start screen's Live Tiles much less useful. Again, to use Outlook as an example: Outlook can't display Live Tiles. It can't give me a mail notification on the Start screen, nor on the lock screen. It can't show me my next appointment on the Start or lock screens either. Why? Because only Metro applications are allowed Live Tiles. This is vexing in Windows 8; it's arguably even more annoying in Windows Server 2012. The Start screen could make an ideal at-a-glance console, with Live Tiles to indicate the health of various system components and services. Except it can't do this, because doing that would require Live Tiles that were generated by desktop applications, system services, and PowerShell scripts. There is a hard and dividing line between the two worlds. Far from allowing seamless switching between the two environments, they barely even acknowledge the other's existence. It's extremely limited, and it means that as a person who has to use the desktop for some things, I find myself avoiding Metro apps for all things. Bridging the gap is just too painful and annoying. The only silver lining to this cloud is that there's no real technical reason for these restrictions. It would be relatively easy to, for example, allow desktop applications to participate in the share contract and other mechanisms. I've heard claims that other scenarios are being considered too, such as allowing drag and drop from the desktop into Metro apps. So the situation could improve in some future version. Right now, though, it's a big pain point. Until this gap is closed, it leaves Windows 8 feeling like two separate operating systems poorly grafted together. You can never avoid the join entirely, but your happiness with Windows 8 will depend heavily on just how often you have to cross over. The more you try to treat the two worlds as equal, integrated peers, the worse Windows 8 gets. The more you stick to one paradigm or the other, the better it is. |
I have a Netbook just sitting here collecting dust. I'm installing Windows 8 Pro as we speak. Might as well, right?
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Originally Posted by pseudoswede
(Post 19566840)
Might as well, right?
Free imagining, I'd be most tempted to put it on a media unit. |
Originally Posted by glennaa11
(Post 19566357)
I just got an Asus Ultrabook that I really like. Except for one major issue...it shuts itself off at random times. I returned the first one that did it. The second one has shutdown randomly 3x in a the week I have been using it. .
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That was an exercise in failure. My Netbook's native resolution is not supported. :( Back to Windows 7.
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A client of mine was looking at W8 in a store and asked a few questions as you might expect. They were tempted to get a touchscreen to go with this new bad boy OS to, as the sales assistant said ""get the most out of it" (or "make it usable" as they later said to me). It was only after a play with the thing that they were unconvinced and one major thing was the 2 instances of IE. So they asked about this and when all they got was an unconvincing response from the sales assistant, decided it just wasn't worth it.
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Originally Posted by cordelli
(Post 19567047)
I believe they will all do it no matter how many times you return it. It seems to be a common problem with them. Some have reported if they get a cooling fan it helps, but that sort of defeats the purpose of a ultra notebook. Asus won't admit they have a problem, but there's plenty of user posts about the same issue
I just installed Windows 8 on the Lenovo laptop mentioned above. It was a pretty painless operation. None of the applications moved, but all of my setting migrated effortlessly. So far I have to say that I like Windows 8 and don't really get all of the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over it. If you really want the desktop there's a big button on the start page that takes you right to it. And I kind of like having the calendar, people, etc apps on the start page. Plus there's a direct link to Chrome which I downloaded that opens it right up. Since most of what I do with this computer is web surfing that's pretty much all I need. Performance seems pretty snappy. And given how bogged down Vista used to be on this computer it is a breath of fresh air. No "not responding" messages...not yet anyway. |
Originally Posted by glennaa11
(Post 19571083)
If you really want the desktop there's a big button on the start page that takes you right to it.
Funny, info week put up a review today saying the same thing, that it really was not as hard as some people were making it out to be. A good example is the options for switching back and for between the Metro interface and the standard, Windows desktop (which, despite complaints by some critics, is easy to access and very similar to the Windows 7 desktop). There are three ways to get from Metro to Windows Explorer. You can toggle back and forth with the Windows key, move the cursor to the bottom left of the display and click, or tap the Live Tile labeled "Desktop." Even when using the XPS 12 in clamshell mode, I invariably chose the latter. It just seemed more intuitive. |
Originally Posted by cordelli
(Post 19571219)
Funny, info week put up a review today saying the same thing, that it really was not as hard as some people were making it out to be.
A good example is the options for switching back and for between the Metro interface and the standard, Windows desktop (which, despite complaints by some critics, is easy to access and very similar to the Windows 7 desktop). There are three ways to get from Metro to Windows Explorer. You can toggle back and forth with the Windows key, move the cursor to the bottom left of the display and click, or tap the Live Tile labeled "Desktop." Even when using the XPS 12 in clamshell mode, I invariably chose the latter. It just seemed more intuitive. Unlike an earlier poster, I don't use my computers for web-surfing. I have little to no interest in social networking apps. I do a fair bit of digital photography, but I don't take snapshots -- I work on my pictures in Photoshop. Why would I want to upgrade to Win8? What does it offer me that Win7 doesn't? |
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