I love quotes. Here is a good one that is appropriate to this discussion.

"People who are a-historical, who have little knowledge of history, are people who are more gullible, more easily manipulated and people who can be more easily adapted to the capitalistic machine than people who are historically knowledgeable. History can become a basis for self-criticism, a basis for self- understanding and more importantly, the basis for the understanding of the motives and the psychology of others." Dr. Amos Wilson.

rawbert

Wrapping yourself in the American flag doesn't make your fear-mongering any more valid.

The slippery slope argument was made during the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and even the 90's. Everywhere we turn, there are examples of somebody screaming about the "slippery slope" to some bad place.

Morality. Family life. Civil rights. Environment. Business ethics. Protectionism. Communism. Sexual freedom.

Pick any topic, and somebody somewhere claims we are sliding down the slippery slope.

Remember the Moral Majority? Christian Coalition? Japan buying up America? Hippies? Black Panthers? Un-American Activities?

All of them passed in their turn without causing the equivalent of the Holocaust or the Killing Fields.

So I agree with mdtony in that saying that some of protests here are just people being melodramatic.

Sometimes you believe that you are on a slippery slope but really aren't. Sometimes you believe that you are on a slippery slope and really are. Sometimes you believe that you are on solid ground but really are on a slippery slope.

The lesson here is to be wary of slippery slopes. None of us is claiming with certainty that we are on one with regard to all this new "security" nonsense, just that we might be. Can anyone really argue with that (other than Tony, who seems to blindly accept whatever the government does, as long as it isn't illegal)?

Bruce

So very true.

I have to agree. It's difficult to understand a system when you're inside it; hindsight is always better. But sticking your head in the sand certainly isn't the answer. The only way to keep governments honest (or try to) is to question them and challenge their decisions.

The US government is granted power by the people and for the people; not the other way around.

d

I think you are misrepresenting mdtony.

He has repeatedly stated that people who don't like what's happening should take their protests to where it matters. Change the laws and persuade the country.

But I agree with him on the point that people here talking about the slippery slope don't seem to be taking constructive actions to prevent the slippery slope. Being an airport guerilla and obstructionist isn't really addressing the issue.

Please quote where I said that I blindly accept whatever the government does. You can't, because I never said it.

I simply said that you will have to change the law if you don't like what's happening.

As for the slippery slope, just because in one situation nearly 70 years ago we did have a slippery slope, I'm supposed to believe that every single case of additional powers being granted to the government yields a Nazi Germany? What a crock! It would be laughable if you folks didn't really believe it!

Tony,

I never claimed to be quoting you. Look at what I said: "...Tony, who seems to blindly accept whatever the government does...." I was merely observing your apparent attitude ("seems"), not suggesting that you ever would admit to having that attitude. But you do! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Bruce

Ah, so you can now read minds of people you have never met? Interesting skill. Perhaps you should take over for Madame Cleo. Just make sure that you do it right, because after all, she ended up in jail.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Tony, Tony, Tony,

I never claimed to be able to read your (alleged) mind. I merely observe what you write and make logical deductions, which obviously could be wrong. I have been quite clear about this.

Now, if you would TELL us what you are thinking, then my attempts to deduce it would be unnecessary. So, tell us, should we always trust the government to have our best interests at heart? Should we forget about past governmental abuses as ancient history? Inquiring minds want to know!

Bruce

[This message has been edited by bdschobel (edited 12-10-2002).]

Okay, so you want to know. Here is my answer. Nobody but you has your best interests at heart. That means the government doesn't, your company doesn't, and so on. Only you do. Having said that, for all the alleged "abuses" that I've heard about, only ONE upsets me, and that is the detention of Padilla and the Bush administration's claim that they can decide, without judicial review, to hold him indefinitely.

As for past government abuses, I've got some news for you. J. Edgar Hoover is dead. He's been dead for a while. And these days, with everyone in the press trying to raise a stink about something that's at most a tangential issue, there's no way that you could do the things that he did. Recent President's couldn't even keep a second rate affair secret, so what makes you think they could keep real abuses quiet?