Changing diapers
 

I will soon be travelling alone with my two daughters (2.5 years old and 6 months old) from Sao Paulo-LHR/ LHR-Edinburgh with British Airways. Would it be inappropriate if I change their non-poopy diapers over a changing pad on my seat (I assume we will get bulkhead seats since the baby will have a skycot)? I am not sure if I could manage both of them in the plane's bathroom without help.

Welcome to Flyertalk, and boy have you chosen a loaded question for your first post! Have a look at this (long) thread where the subject is extensively discussed (disgust?).

Michael

p.s. (to everyone else) Please please let's not start this one again! Pointers to the myriad other threads discussing diaper changes would provide much more light and less heat.

I was about to go find the link to that thread too.

I would personally ask a Flight Attendant on board and not go by what we think on here.

I agree with asking the FA. I think in most cases, the FA would gladly watch/distract the 2.5 y/o, while you take the 6 m/o to the lavatory.

Thanks for being gentle with a newbie. I will surely talk to the FA. I have read (was it here?!) that BA is very child friendly. :)

That thread looks interesting.

Thank you for being considerate enough to ask.
 

I applaud your effort to be reasonable. To answer your question, it is very inappropriate! Now if I were on the plane near you, I would be happy to entertain your other child for a few moments to help you out. I am sure others would as well. However, not knowing them, it would be best to ask the FA to entertain the other child for a brief period.

(it depends...)
 

Hi, while I'm not that much of an old-hand on FT, I've been travelling with
little kids for a long time.

It is my strong opinion that if you have a toddler and an infant, it is in
everyone's best interest to change your baby on your lap on a mat. There
won't be any unsanitary effects (there's a pad plus you, for goodness' sake);
your toddler will not be alone with a stranger (!) which I think is the worst
solution; you won't have to drag two little kids to a tiny bathroom stall.

I think it is probably also ok to lay out a mat (probably double-mat, to
protect your mat from the yucky floor) on the floor in the bulkhead.

Best option - change the baby in the "bassinette" if there is such a thing
on your flight.

I have never understood people's objections, considering that adult leakage
or incontinence or lack of hygiene is much yuckier IME than anything a
baby can produce. However, it is probably best if you have a seat-section
to your family's own, so no one else will notice or be bothered.

I don't want anyone to flame you (or me), but that is my opinion.

--LG

There are NUMEROUS threads that will tell you POINT BLANK that the poster above is NOT the accepted norm. Do a search for diaper changes and you will see.
:td: Please do NOT change diapers in the cabin under any circumstances. :td:

:td: There is also a thread on the know BIOHAZARDS of this practice! :td:
Please don't make statements of what is yuckier. Neither are positive experiences. And neither are acceptable. :o

That is disgusting. :mad:

"the norm"
 

Look, it may not be the flyertalk.com norm, but I'm not sure you can say
what is or is not the "accepted norm"...if it weren't a prevalent practice,
then it wouldn't have led to so much discussion.

I'm not really interested in getting flamed anymore; I just thought that
the OP deserved to hear the other side of the issue in a reasoned way.

--LG

My wife changed our son's diaper whilst he was on her lap when he was 6 days old :eek: I had never seen such a thing done before! It didn't squick me out, I was more shocked at the balance/control needed to do such a thing...I chalked it up as another woman-only skill :D

This topic has been discussed before, ad nauseum. Re-read the thread I linked above to see that your point has been made and responded to (ad infinitum) before getting into it all over again.

Michael

Yes, I can say what an accepted norm is. Just because some people lack respect for others or just because, some people do not care about others health or don't have the dignity to change a diaper in private, does NOT make it acceptable. :td: Would a person change a diaper in the kitchen right before or after a meal? :td: Would a person change a diaper in the chapel during a church service? :td: That seat is where people eat. That seat is where everyone is forced to smell or be exposed to any bacteria. :td: Everyone's immune system is not the same and some could become sick from this action. :( It does not take a rocket scientist to have respect for others. :eek: Anyone whose parents raised them correctly would know what common descency is. ;)

Anyone that is not interested in getting flamed would not post a reply reiterating their position as the "OTHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE IN A REASONED WAY" :td: , that is begging for a response. ;)

Yeah, when is that? How did you know about thread has been already discussions before?

SEARCH :o

one more try...
 

Um...ok. From my perspective, "anyone" who would like to win converts to
his/her side would give a more calm/content-ful answer than a string of red
frownie faces. Clearly it is not your preferred "norm" to have diapers changed
in your presence. I hope that I am not on a plane with you anytime soon.
I'm sure the feeling is mutual. BTW I do not have a diaper-aged child at
the moment. But I hope that any parents who do, are sitting next to me
and not next to you.

I am beginning also to see that flyertalk may have a "norm" of a slight
anti-child bias. I encourage the OP to have a look at babycenter.com or
yahoogroups (under 'travelling with children') so that s/he can get a more
nuanced discussion instead of the spiteful comments that I'm getting here.

At any rate, I don't think that an airplane is very much like a restaurant or
church etc. The main difference is that a plane is a small, sub-optimal
environment for everyone. Compromises must always be made. Not every
compromise will be made in favor of the childless business community.

On one of the other threads, someone hoped for non-family flights to be
available so that s/he could travel with adults only. I would prefer this
as well, so that it would segregate people with those views away from
parents and their small children.

One more practical idea for the OP - if you dress your baby in a diaper that
is one size up from the usual, you can go longer between pee-only changes.
That's probably most convenient for parents and on-lookers alike.

I do have a practical question - how is there a "bacterial" risk from a diaper
changed on a mat on a mom's lap? Where is the bacteria coming from or
going to? Let's assume that the diaper is wrapped up and put in an "air
sickness bag" and thrown away in the trash, and that the mom uses an
anti-bacterial wipe on her hands after the change, and puts the changing
mat back into her diaper bag.

Frankly, I'm a lot more worried about people who wear short skirts/shorts
on the seat before I get there (see "The Secret Life of Germs" for more
on that one...apparently there are measurable levels of adult-bottom
bacteria on seats due to that). I'm also a lot more worried about
adults who don't wash their hands properly etc. etc. If I had to make
the epidemiological choice of whose germs to be near, I'd choose the
baby every time.

--LG

Ever diapered a male infant? Urine can go everywhere when you least expect it. I'm not claiming that it is full of raging bacteria, but it will smell bad, and it just grosses people out to see urine sprayed all over. There is also always an element of the unexpected in diaper changing - just because it was urine only diaper when you started doesn't mean that won't change before you're done. And it is next to impossible for a parent to change a diaper without touching non-diaper things in the area if you're working in a closed space - like at a seat.

I am a parent who has traveled extensively by air with my child since he was 4 months old, so I definitely don't fit the anti-child profile. But I do think changing a diaper at the seat is disgusting. Toilet functions do not belong in the same place people will be eating, or even just sitting confined for a long period of time.

My older daughter has legs too skinny, larger diapers would probably leak. As for the baby, I sometimes change her during the night when all my other attempts to make her comfy enough to sleep have failed... in that case taking her to a bright plane bathroom would only make her more excited. But the odds are that I won't have to change their diapers in the plane unless there is a stinky poop one, and in that case I would surely take the child to a bright bathroom where I can be sure that I have cleaned them properly. :)

I will check those websites. Thank you. ^

Paragraph 1: Just like your post count shows, you are new to f/t. That may be why you do not understand the "SMILIES". There purpose is to try and carry over a sense of BODY LANGUAGE that cannot be shown over the internet or in writing. It is a way to let YOU know that I am not trying to THROW YOU OFF THE PLANE AT 30,000 FEET! Frownie-Faces are YELLOW not RED!
Paragraph 2: f/t is NOT anti-child by any means. Most of us travel with their children or have in the past. I have three boys and they have been flying since birth. "BEEN THERE - DONE THAT". The difference between people on f/t and the other sites that you mention is that people on f/t tend to respect others and try to find a mutually acceptable way of dealing with situations. On the other sites, all they care about is "How do I do this regardless of its affect on others!"
Paragraph 3: It is exactly like a RESTAURANT, People eat at that seat before you were there and long after your gone. It is NOT sterilized after every flight. We should do all we can to minimize the contamination for the sake of everyone. All too often someone starts changing their babies diaper in the cabin and OTHERS are eating or have just eaten and it nausiates them. So if you think it is OK to lay your baby on the table and start changing the diaper or sit at the table and change the diaper while others are eating, you are out of touch with what is acceptable.You are so correct a "plane is a small, sub-optimal environment for everyone" so guess what any bacteria or germs WILL be transmitted to others through-out the aircraft. You have your head in the sand thinking that the "business community" is childless.

Lavatories have diaper changing stations that fold down over the toilet. Ask the f/a which one or ones on the a/c that you are flying is equipped with one and use it. Diaper changing in the cabin is DISGUSTING! :mad:

Moderator, please close this useless, redundant, thread? @:-)

Please tell me what your suggestion is when airplanes do not have fold down tables????? That is the issue - I'd always prefer to use them, however when they are not available, the FLIGHT ATTENDANT directed me to use the floor. Which I did as I was prepared with a blanke (mine), changing pad and ziploc.

Just please realise that parents are trying to find the best solution possible for all parties concerned. It may seem great to balance an 18 month old on a toilet seat, but I don't have the dexterity to do so. Not to mention the terror the kids faces by trying to balance on said small space. So I change him on the floor, in front of said door, which yes, is next to the galley. And by my calculation, I'm only about 12 more inches closer to the galley than the lav so the germ issue is moot.

No it is NOT the issue, Read again, that was not the OP's issue. Go SEARCH that is ANOTHER thread.

Ok. Where is it?

Slight anti-child bias? Lol. We have people who want to ban all children from flying.

Most people that say those kind of things are just kidding I am sure.

If you feel this is a useless and redundant thread why don't you just not read this? No one is forcing you to read what you feel is useless and redundant! :rolleyes:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Me, I support LG10 ^ .
drbond you have made your opinion clear - time to move on I think.

Love your redneck tag by the way - very appropriate ;)

Sometimes all that needs to be said to an OP's question is within the first few lines. You get two differing opinions stated. Leaving the thread open to further comments, just allows a flaming to continue. After it gets way out of hand people start to complain and then the moderators come in and started pm'ing people. It would be best just to close the thread while it is still fairly civil and avoid the problem all together.

Well that is good, everyone needs one or two to support them so they are not TOTALLY alone!

thanks!
 

Thanks! :)

Anyway, I was giving this issue a bit more thought, and I think it is a lot
like any of the "why do xyz passengers do abc that really annoys me??"
posts.

There are threads between people who hate recliners and people who
always recline; there are threads between people who bring their own food
on-board and people who hate the smell of other people's food; there are
people who think rolling suitcases are an imposition on the carry-on space
or boarding time and people who feel that they need those suitcases
for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there are other examples too.

And for every such topic, there are vehement opinions on both sides
expressing everything from Constitutional rights to poor health/hygiene to
physical limitation concerns.

My point is that this "children should be seen and not heard and by gum,
don't even think of changing a diaper in my presence" attitude is just one
side of a "who will compromise on this one?" issue.

Like all such issues, it will likely be decided (it already is) to the more
Libertarian side...i.e. people will do what they like (recline, bring
strong-smelling food, bring desired luggage, change children as they
please), with a dose of airline-economic-reality or regulations.

I do appreciate the etiquette-nature of this (and other) questions, so it's
not like I think it's great to bug everyone around you etc. etc.

Arguably, to take up one of very few airplane bathrooms with a time-consuming
process that could be done elsewhere -- could be considered ruder than
minding one's own business and changing one's baby at the seat. In fact,
I would consider this to be true, and I would think that it was an unnecessary
wait for me if I wanted to use the bathroom at that time.

The best way to manage children on a plane, I think (and I thought well
before having children) -- is to have them be relatively unobtrusive to
everyone else. In diaper situations, this means changing them quietly in your
own space.

Oh, and no one has discussed the safety concerns, but balancing upright
in the lavatory while your wriggly kid is on a raised platform seems pretty
risky to me. What about unexpected turbulence? If you change your baby
at your seat, you don't have to un-belt.

I'm still not buying the "germ" objection because as a parent, I can
assure anyone that the seats/tables/floors are disgusting enough that
no-one would put their baby's plain tush on them! And, regarding boys
and their possible urine, any parent of boys (and I am one) quickly learns
to hold the diaper to catch any such wayward streams.

Of course, vehement posters will always try to shut down debate by saying
that their side is the only one, or the only acceptable one. (It was a new
low that drbond asked the moderator to close the thread because it bored
him personally.)

I did go back and read the originally-suggested thread about diapers. I
found it to be pretty offensive, and by the way, it was actually a thread
about "why people don't want kids to travel on airplanes" which is a pretty
snarky topic to begin with (though the OP seemed to be asking innocently
enough).

I guess there are about a dozen hard-core FT'ers who make themselves
heard about not wanting children or evidence of children to exist
in their presence. I really hope that there are lurkers or seldom-posters who
don't feel intimidated by this kind of attitude, either on flyertalk or on
airplanes.

While it is true that I'm relatively new to flyertalk per se, I'm no newbie to
the internet or to moderated discussion groups. I'm pretty surprised that it
seems to be accepted netiquette here to be so unfriendly/ad-hominem
instead of addressing content.

--LG

If I had a child still in diapers, here is what I would do - not fly.

Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?

No, the idea of not taking my son to visit 50+ relatives, including a 97 year old great grandmother, all of whom live 2,220 miles away from us just because someone might object to a fellow passenger wearing diapers never occured to us. We changed diapers only in restrooms and his diapers never inconvenienced another passenger in the least. More importantly, his great grandmother got to see him before she died, which frankly is a thousand times more important to us than the opinions of strangers who would object to a baby on a plane. (should I also mention he slept through all the flights with nary a cry?)

What a flight last night, all of these children were in FIRST:
2 unaccompanied minors
2 less than 2 year olds in seats
1 lap child
3 accompanied minors (one of which was mine)

Unaccompanied were unruly for about 30 minutes
lap child & dad had a horrible time for about 1.5 hours and then prior to landing.
One of the two 2yo was a whining, wiggling nuisance to the paxs in 3e all night.

And guess what NO one changed a diaper in the cabin ^

We are moving overseas. Taking a ship (or swimming :rolleyes: ) is not an option for us. :p

Thank you for your opinion. This had not occured to me before. After thinking about it, I have decided to do things a little differently than you. While I will not be seeing you with a diaper-wearing child on a plane any time soon, you can expect me to be traveling with my 3 month old in a seat next to you very shortly. May I ask you to help me out and hold the ziploc for the dirties. :eek: :p ;)

other suggestions
 

Of course no one would seriously suggest that you refrain from flying! I do
think that ideally you would have been able to have a 2nd adult with you for help with the 2
little kids. But that would be purely for your comfort/sanity, and sometimes
life interferes so that's not possible.

--LG

What does that have to do with the original post and discussion in this thread? What is your point? :confused:

Back to the subject of the thread. I do not think it is appropriate to change a diaper in the cabin, I'd ask a flight attendent or a neighbor to mind the toddler for a couple minutes.

Agreed. I just did this at my seat before takeoff on a flight this weekend. I bought the baby a seat and used my changind pad at the seat. Going to the lav before boarding was not an option (time) nor going to the lav on the plane (pushback).

During flight I took the baby to the lav and used hte changing table. The United A319/320 have tables. If I was on an AC that doesn't have a table I'd use the seat again and again.

:eek:

If someone did that next to me while on an airplane, they'd be in a World of sh!t, and not just from the diapers!

Any of you who think that that sort of thing is perfectly fine have to get out of your self-entitlement mindset and take a microbiology course. Maybe when some arrogant, inconsiderate parents start getting sued (for getting some immune-deficient people sick) there might be some well overdue changes (no pun intended...) in this arena.

NEVER, EVER CHANGE A DIAPER IN THE SEATING AREA OF THE CABIN!

NEVER!

There is no emoticon or degree of capitalization or number of exclaimation points that can acurately convey how putrid and wrong this practice is. Just quit it.

matter of opinion
 

Obviously, this is an issue on which people disagree. If it were really such
a terrible practice, there could be a rule against it. Saying your opinion in
extreme terms does not make it more true. Again, the "germ" argument is
just not tenable when compared to the real germ risks on an airplane (air,
unwashed adult hands, seatbelts handled by countless folks w/o washing,
etc.)

Most parents know that diaper changes simply do not generate huge germ
risks. As I said before, give me baby-tush germs over adult-hand germs
anyday.

--LG