Absolutely none of my business, but, bravo, Gaucho!

Sadly, no I will not be attending this year's Freddies. I e-mailed Randy some weeks ago telling him of a committment I have at the Streaming Media West Conference in Los Angeles.

If it is a face at the Freddies that will help you, I'd refer you to the following link:

http://members.aol.com/flyerpics/FREDD2K.JPG

Where Catman, MileCrazy, Randy, Boomer and Myself posed with the 2000 Industry Impact award that Randy gave to Flyertalk, and the four of us accepted on everyone's behalf. (That picture sits in a silver frame in my Manhattan office.)

If it is a meeting and civil conversation you are suggesting, I'm absolutely happy to meet any and all Flyertalkers, and perhaps we can arrange something at EWR President's club, or if you'd be more comfortable in a group, Catman is long overdue to have a NY NJ Flyertalkers get together, and we can try that.

As far as my statement:
I suggest, as I did before, that Flyertalk is not an appropriate forum for a more detailed explanation of that statement, but I do stand by it with all my heart. It is not meant to insult any regular members participating there now I assure you. If you're unwilling to exchange e-mail with me regarding an explanation of that sentiment, you should feel free to e-mail almost any of the listed founders of that site and ask. Aside from any individual's biases, I'm sure you would get an explanation. Try SVP or Dgolds or Punki...I know they have more history than you could care to know.

And finally, I am quite far from running the show here. I've had my time out with all the others. I do not like the ocassional double standard of people who "get caught" facing sanctions, while others never get caught. But I have had a thorough dialog with Randy, and he made the following points very clear:

1)He is one person doing this job. He'll NEVER catch what he is not e-mailed about.

2)Any action he takes is his business.

3)I may have had good points to make, yet my actions (in the case of my suspension) hurt the community regardless of their intentions.

4)Only I will be responsible if I get a strike two, as I clearly know where he doesn't want me to go.

I assume he e-mailed you and any others that have had time-outs. My statement was and is simply that the "he started it" defense, for you and I and I'm sure many others is all used up. We are each now responsible for our own behavior. I appreciate that you have decided to ceace further references to me regarding the post above. That means, regardless of your opinion of me or my opinions, you are taking responsibility for your actions on FT that can be perceived as attacks. That's probably what Randy asked in the first place.

I very much appreciate the maturity you show in your last post. I will strive to match it.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 04-21-2002).]

A related thread contains comments by Randy:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001946.html

cblaisd,
I apologize for the mistake but I disagree that it was obvious. I generally do not reread posts in a thread, so I skip to the page I had last read and quickly scroll down to the fresh comments. In previous thread closings it was shown as the last comment by the moderator that it was being closed and moved. All that was shown was a big stamped thread closed on post reply and the comment thread closed at the bottom. I guess I should have looked more closely at the whole page but I did not and for that I apologize again, but I believe most people have also missed that as well.

In the day after it was moved forward 20 posters commented on the issues. After seeing thread closed no one has moved over. I because I did not see it was moved and the 2 people I answered did not say that they had seen it as well. Several of the other threads closed and moved have also not had any additional comments. So while I am not trying to be disruptive, I still think that some other changes need to be atleast considered.

Tigertiger, again I hope these changes do not destroy the boards but a board can remain active and still lose the community spirit. So hopefully these discussions can occur without rancor and bitterness, because the feeling of the longtime posters looking for luggage tags and starting long discussion with people they have never met takes a community spirit to happen. It will not happen if people are just reading mileage updates. I also do not support and hope my comments are not read as kicking and whining but in my experience it is the very few who will actually make their concerns known and generally should not be considered the sum total of peoples feelings one way or another. It seems like it would be the ones that have the community spirit that are willing to accept ridicule to protect something they care about.

Therefore while we all realize that this is Randy's board and it will be his choice. I think it is all of our duty to give him input which he then can use or decline. But if we stay silent he never has the chance to hear other voices.

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Robert

robvberg, I agree that the note telling of the change was inconspicuous (I never would have seen it had not cblaisd pointed it out - now I'll know where to look), and yes, I think that putting a final post at the bottom is a better way to make sure people know what's up with a thread.

I didn't intend to imply that by voicing your concerns you were 'kicking and whining'. I would use that term if 6 months from now people were still posting multiple threads in multiple fora on the topic and continuing to keep people riled up who might have otherwise have just gracefully gone along with the change. I don't see why people can't be friendly, get to know one another, and find a sense of community by agreeing that this forum is where we talk about our airline program, this one is where we talk about other stuff, etc.

I also agree that, as you said, Randy won't know how we feel unles we tell him, the same way he won't know what's going on with flaming, etc, unless someone emails him.

I think those posting about arturo's ability to post under multiple handles missed this post last month:

What a fair and just community we have here. Don't you just love how the TOS is evenly applied to everyone? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

FewMiles..

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It's par for course.

While I absolutely support equitable application of all rules, I am confused about the inference that arturo may be receiving special treatment. What evidence would indicate that arturo posts any other handle?

Oh come on people, arturo has been grandfathered. He's not used his account to stir up trouble, but to point at things in a funny and different way.

He's built up a level of trust over his 1000 posts that is completely in keeping with the spirit of the rule. To ban him for multiple handle posting (and it's in no way certain that he is a multiple handle of someone else), would completely go against the intent of the rules.

This is not an arbitrary enforcement of the rules, you've just all been around airlines and unions too long to understand that results are more important than rules.

All right then, how about a public verification of arturo's real/other identity? Maybe I'm only saying this because I'm as curious as the next person as to the true identity of the (in)famous arturo. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

FewMiles..

Knowing the identity of arturo would destroy the mystique of arturo. Same as in curiosity killed the cat.

"Such is Life" Ned Kelly 1880

[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 04-29-2002).]

Though from the civilized tone that arturo uses, his other identity (if he has one) is not likely to be that of a participant in flame wars.

The same can be said of certain others here, some of which (thankfully) are no longer on FT... or are they?

Wow, I think I will sign up a few more handles for myself now. All I have to do is claim I'm arturo if I ever get busted for it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
FewMiles..

Punki,

My guess is that you know the answer to your question.

Dan