Just as a heads-up, folks, we are currently discussing this issue in the private TalkBoard forum.

These changes were made without our input which is certainly within FT protocol. We are an advisory board who the Community Director can use or s/he can make decisions without our input.

So depending on how the TB members feel about the issue and/or if the Community Director goes along with the majority opinion will decide how this ultimately concludes.

Like others have said earlier in this thread, I too believe that the forum regulars should have direct input into how their forums are named or renamed.

Here is part of what I just posted in the private TB forum:

I will say that this is an abject lesson in how even little changes can upset your customers/constituency. Allowing folks to at least have input allows better acceptance of change even if one doesn't necessarily like it. Not a sermon, just a thought. :)

Too bad Smisek hadn't already learned this lesson. :mad:



My general feeling is that there should be consistency in format. But posters ought to have some input into the preferred, consistently applied format for naming forums based on countries/regions.

I doubt Mrs. Slocombe would be referring to content. I'm sure, however, we'd hear about her pussy.

Thanks to the TB members who shared updates; I appreciate that this is being discussed, even if the outcome doesn't ultimately differ from what it is now. (But still hoping that the quirky forum will retain it's quirky name in the end :) )

FWIW, as Cholula notes, I did start a thread in the TB forum. And, FWIW, I've put forward the suggestion that it should either be 1) changed so that the 3 fora in question (Hawaii, Russia area, and Indian) get renamed to "Airlines of xxxx" or 2) that they be moved towards the bottom near the "Other xxxx" forums.

I agree that the Airlines of xxx is a more logical name - but not for the "feeling' behind it, but more so for the practicality of it.

I think that these "lumped" airline fora should be placed together - as a newbie wouldn't know where to go to find India-based airlines or Russian-based airlines on their own.

I think that the Hawaii-based airlines made sense as that forum was right next to the Hawaiian Airlines forum - so logically located for those seeing info. For India & Russia though, the new format is actually, IMHO, the least logical way of grouping. No new FT'er that doesn't know that the India/Russia forums exist will easily find or stumble upon these 2 fora.

IMHO, it should be changed back to how it was previously as the first preference. Second preference is to turn them all to "Airlines of xxx". And the current set-up isn't even really a preference, IMHO, as I really don't believe it to be a logicial once. Sometimes consistency actually doesn't make sense for the user experience, IMHO.

You do realize that you had me up all night watching Are You Being Served reruns, right? :p

When initially reviewing this topic, I wasn't aware there was previous discussion on the issue here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india...-airlines.html

In a review of that thread, I count:

• 4 members in support of renaming it back to the old name
• 9 members in support of the new name or who do not support renaming it back to the old name
• 1 member who has no preference
• 6 members who post unrelated commentary on the thread and do not express any comment on the subject itself

Given this information, I would be likely to favor the current (new) name and consistency it brings to FlyerTalk.

But that isn't the only place the topic is being discussed. It came up on the Chai Stall thread as well as here. And not everyone has 'voted' on each thread. And I thought that ultimately it is TB which votes, not the general membership. But certainly I do think that the membership should be heard, and just using that thread isn't necessarily representative of the general population.

I personally am somewhat surprised that one person who is not a regular poster on that forum managed to have the title changed, without input, which tends to be counter to how such changes are made (Especially in light of the numerous geographic fora changes and the input which was solicited)

That's not accurate.

My count was:

• 4 members in support of renaming it back (PVDtoDEL, snod08, Simz, and zenith2010). Since then, AoI forum regulars Hyderago, lallyr, deepakbhatia, bollyfan, and zoonil have voiced that they support renaming it back, along with AoI community member exbayern, who admittedly is only a lurker on our forum. This topic has also been discussed in other places, such as Chai Stall and a few other threads, where there was other support of renaming it back.
• 2 members in favor of keeping the name as it is (Babu, who has said that he would have no objections if it were changed back even though he likes it the current way, and lo2e, who most certainly not a frequent poster/reader of AoI)
• 9 members who were indifferent to the change. (GUWonder, Oliver2002, SeeBuyFly, Keyser, B747-437B, Mr. Bean, SQ421, AJLondon and rurouni212). They all said "We don't care what you call it" - which certainly doesn't mean that they support it in current form. It just means that they don't want to spend time/effort lobbying to get it changed back.

That's a very different picture than you were posting.

I'd only like to clarify that I am at the moment a lurker at AoI due to circumstances, but tend to post more frequently when I my travel year includes more India. (And I tend to defer to the wisdom on that board as there is far more there than I possess :) )

But I don't consider my voice in current lurker status to carry any less weight as a result. I know that whenever I do come back to that community, they welcome me, and I still consider myself part of that community even if I read more than post these days. I post far more on the UA forum, but don't really consider myself part of that particular community.

Indeed. We all consider you a valuable member of our community. I just wanted to state that upfront so nobody comes running with "exbayern hasn't posted on AoI in x decades!" (:p)

The simple fact that you read the forum often means that you deserve a say. And thankfully, here at FT, you actually get one ;)

I'll chime in and also request that we go back to AOI, and also that we standardize the "Airlines of" moniker for the others. AOI is just the traditional name that we're all used to, and I think it would be nice to keep it at that since it sounds better, is placed better, and has a tremendous member-backing for the old name.

Thanks - I even still have my Kingfisher baggage tags to prove my membership in AoI. :D

With all due respect cuz I like & value your opinion, on this one I'll disagree. I started thinking about this due to this thread & the request to turn AofI back.

If I was new to FT I'd actually probably look for location if I wasn't looking for a specific airline program.

So India-based or Hawaiian-based or Russia-based would probably direct me closer to where I needed to be if I didn't find it under a specific airline program (which is how the rest of the airline programs are listed).

I would actually think it more strange to see Hawaii, India & Russia grouped together because the 3 have literally nothing in common other than "Airlines of".

Cheers.

Reading the discussion now, I would disagree - people really seem to dislike the change. The "consistency" argument doesn't really cut it with me I'm afraid, it sounds a little like the "we've always done things this way" that people come up with when they don't have a better argument. I can't see what is so imporant about consistency - if there were thousands of entries to plow through this might be valid, but there aren't.

I loved the sound of the old name, and I can sympathise with the regulars there who are disappointed by the change.

But what about the argument:

"For people new to FT...

India-based or Hawaiian-based or Russia-based would probably direct me closer to where I needed to be if I didn't find it under a specific airline program (which is how the rest of the airline programs are listed).

I would actually think it more strange to see Hawaii, India & Russia grouped together because the 3 have literally nothing in common other than "Airlines of".

I was originally leaning towards the change back, but the more I think about it I'm leaning towards keeping it the same because I think it makes more sense from a logical point of view.

Cheers.

I see your point, but it's not like it's an encyclopaedia where people would have to trawl through hundreds or thousands of entries to find what they want, once they manage to find the right area to look.

Someone new to FT is always going to have trouble finding what they want no matter how it's ordered. If it's my first time here and I want to find, say, opinions on Air France's business class product it's going to take me a while to figure that it's somewhere under Miles and Points. I think I'd be more likely to look first under "Travel and Dining" because I might think that it's about travel, not earning points.

Hmmm, thinking about this, perhaps I should start a push to have "Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners)" forum changed to "French and Netherlands and Other Places Based Airlines". That would help it to fit in better with the standard :)

Your perogative to do so, although airline programs (vs. multiple airlines within a region) usually go by the airline or FFname. If you want to lobby TB - and the Community Director - re: change, that's fine. Don't get too disappointed though if Flying Blue stays the same ;)

Cheers.

I've got no interest in doing this, I was just making the point that the standardisation argument is more or less bollocks.

Actually I disagree.

The 3 forums that currently exist that are not individual airlines/FF program based, can be either Airlines of or XX-based airlines - & thus consistent whichever way it goes. It would be inconsistent if one was Airlines of & the other 2 were XX-based.

I appreciate that some of the folk frequenting the forum prefer the old AofI, but in reading this thread there were a # who didn't care at all or thought the new way was fine too.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india...-airlines.html

So speaking only for myself as a TB member, I'm ok with letting the new nomenclature stand.

And for those who are concerned about 'finding' it the new way, I'd recommend "My Flyertalk".

Cheers.

Fine by me, we disagree, that's life. You've said nothing to change my opinion that the argument is bollocks.

FWIW, I found the Airlines of India forum when I was looking for Air India Flying Returns. I found the Hawaii-based Airlines forum when I was looking for Hawaiian.

I don't see why someone would go looking for "India" when the rest of the forums are named after airlines.


FWIW, I think the vast majority of people find our forum through google.

You can't be more wrong: ;)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ft-forums.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...-omni-p-r.html

I like logical way of thinking. :)

Then you'd best start lobbying to have the "Airlines Programs" area cleaned up immediately; I don't know how you can stand it. ;)


Then you'd best start lobbying to have the "Airlines Programs" area cleaned up immediately; I don't know how you can stand it. ;)

Actually jackal is correct, and your calculation is not accurate.

So you are against changing it back? As in, you would prefer that the name is kept the current way?

That is not what your post said -

My comment in post 64 refers to your calculation and it's inaccuracy based on the linked thread from the India-based airlines forum.

Your numbers from that thread are incorrect. Jackal's numbers are correct.

I listed all the members I counted as I counted...

Could you please note the specific inaccuracies in my post (other than forgetting to include you, which I have since fixed).

There you go! You found the inaccuracy in your initial calculation which was clearly wrong and needed fixing.

While jackal's calculation was always correct.

Even after fixing my calculation, it differs significantly from Jackal's.

Can someone tell me how many angels can sit on the head of a pin?

With or without wings? ;) (it makes a difference, ya know)

deleted

Carol, we're still waiting for your comment anxiously...

Hi SanDiego1K,

I believe you have the authority on deciding/putting at rest what's being debated here. Although a newbie FT poster, I have been lurking around the erstwhile 'Airlines of India' forum since a long time. I have always found it fun, warm and informative, with members who are unpretentious and welcoming. Personally speaking, the new name does not feel quite right or befitting. More practically, the forum name does not have to begin with 'India' in order to make things easier - I don't believe any newbie would have had trouble finding the forum with the old name since it used to feature right near the top anyway. Most of all, the 'Airlines of India Chai Stall' sticky - the concept of which can only be fully appreciated by Indians or folks who have spent some time in the sub-continent - just doesn't go with the new forum name.

Some have been more vehement than others in defending the old name, but do know that there are those on the sidelines (like me) who are not fans of the name change.

Someone had a few snarky words for me earlier on this thread, but these are exactly the kind of people I am yet to run into on the India forum, and hope our voice gets considered.

Just curious - will the content & camaraderie amongst the Indian airline regulars change if the name stays the new name? "A rose by any other name is still a rose".

Cheers.

No, I very much doubt that the content and camaraderie will change. It is indeed a wonderful bunch of regulars who frequent the forum, with often varying and esoteric views that lead to most interesting exchanges.

It will still indeed be a rose. (Or possibly a "gulab ka phool" for the regulars. ;) )

(against all my instincts to not prolong a debate that doesn't seem to be going anywhere), no - the camaraderie shouldn't and will not change any bit due to a mere name change. But is that reason enough to justify the new name? I guess it just boils down to how people tend to associate a set of words with something bigger though intangible over a period of time.. and a seemingly undemocratic/sudden change don't make things easy :)

Thanks for asking! Always appreciated an earnest question over a sarcastic retort.

A rose by another name is still a rose. That said, if a rose would rather be called gulab ka phool than rose, I would certainly take it into account when referring to them ;)

Similarly, the content and camaraderie in our little corner of FT is fantastic. Whether or not we have our preferred name, not much will change.

The effect of changing the name back will be to make the members of our forum community happier. That's all. While it may not yield tangible, measurable "improvements," the forum regulars getting their wishes heard will certainly contribute to the positive atmosphere we already have in our forum.

+1 -- Whatever PVDtoDEL said (couldn't have said it better myself ;-)

Sounds like a sense and sensibility kind of argument to me. We'll see which side our CD lands on. ;)