tommy777

Gimme me a break.. Is it so hard to understand that no one has any economical gain from this? Is it so hard to understand that face to face interaction and the social aspect of this is attractive to Flyertalkers?

Do you really think the Chicago DO would will up with 500+ people again if it wasn't worth it for FTers?

That you are belittling organizers of these DOs and all the effort it takes to put them together is pretty low. The community strongly disagrees with you what a real DO is.

cblaisd

"Paid cash" is a little misleading. Moderators were given a stipend to help defray their travel costs. Which was very helpful indeed. And just to note: before the sale of FT to IB the receipts that moderators signed were from the HOM; after, they were from IB.

Indeed, Randy did so before the sale to IB. After the sale, Randy hosted but IB paid.

tommy777

And myself and 99,999% of our members have no problem with that, just in the same way that 99,999% of our members have no problem with speakers getting free, sponsored airplane tickets and hotel rooms.

cblaisd

Oddly enough, when I see "FT" I think "FlyerTalk."

As do "99,999% of our members"

tommy777

I hear you, loud and clear. But face it, us Flyertalkers are just a very small group of travelers, the frequent users can't be more than 10K people

The FT Awards name will be marketed to over 50 million members of loyalty programs throughout the month of March, most of them have never heard of Flyertalk.

The logo and the website states the full name. http://www.ftuniversity.com/ To write The Frequent Traveler University every single time, gets a little old.

kokonutz

Honestly, if you have so much great information to share, why not simply post it on FlyerTalk. @:-) No need to travel on your dime or anyone else's!

Why make me pay money to underwrite your attending a seminar to have you share your wisdom? For the pleasure of your company?

Do they?

That's what I am asking the TB, as the community's representative.

Because what *I* see has gone beyond magnanimous posters getting together to share information in a spirit of community. What I see is a cottage industry of seminars and websites springing up to take information that is available for free from FlyerTalk posters, package that up and resell it back to the posters for a fee.

Maybe that's what FlyerTalk has become. I like to think not. But that's what I see.

tommy777

I guess you missed what i wrote... Or not

So a bunch of guys get together and put up a cool thing without getting paid a dime and makes sure that companies/sponsors knock the price down so you can have a bunch of fun, drinks, meals and conference room under cost and that's a bad thing?

Yeah, it's horrible what Flyetalk has turned in to.

SkiAdcock

I just reread the thread that Tom linked to, and would encourage everyone to read it in its entirety (takes less than 5 minutes).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ft-events.html

I'd say the majority of those posting didn't have a problem w/ administrative fees if they are disclosed up front & for what purpose, and pretty much took sandiego1K's top down view.

A large # didn't think it was a TB issue either for that matter.

I also found myself agreeing with what I said last year in that thread

Last year's ORD Seminar was run by an all volunteer group and will be again. The logistics (and yes, cost) in organizing a 2-day seminar for 450 people & signing legal contracts - which is quite frankly a lot different than FTers sitting around a bar or restaurant informally chatting miles & points - resulted in an admin fee. Any additional funds after costs were covered were donated to charity, not kept by the organizers. The same this year, even if the admin fee is slightly larger. The Frequent Traveler University (FTU) is being run by the Frequent Traveler Educational Foundation (FTET), a non-profit organization. Everything is basically disclosed up front (otherwise how did you know that speakers might get their air & hotel covered .

FTers have the choice to attend or not, based on what the seminar do is about, the perceived value, etc. If they're not interested or don't see the value they won't. If they attend & it's not what they thought, they won't attend if it's held again. Given that 106 FTers signed up yesterday for the ORD Sem Do and a # were folk who attended last year, presumably they find value. And the first post details what the admin fee is covering. Nothing's been hidden that I can tell.

I guess I just don't see a rash of for profit ventures hitting FT CB all of a sudden. Shrug.

Cheers.

wanaflyforless

- To a small extent, I have done so in years past (especially in forums like milesbuzz), and the posts got buried and forgotten (while the same questions get asked in new threads every year). Although mostly I have chosen not to (reasons for not doing so differ depending on topic).

- Based on feedback from my audience, engaged FTers learned many things from me they did not learn on Flyertalk, even though they read Flyertalk all the time. Are the attendees lying to me just to make me feel good?

- Perhaps in person interaction can aid the transfer of wisdom/knowledge more efficiently than reading Flyertalk forums.

wijomas

Here we go AGAIN.

If you don't like the charges for a DO, don't attend. Simple.

Plenty of people find the events highly valuable, and the speakers highly valuable too. That's why over 500 people attend the Chicago Seminar DO. And guess what? In 2009 and 2010 it cost me 1/6th of the average annual salary in New Zealand to attend Star Mega DO. Hell, I don't even eat stuff at the dinners, and I don't drink. Know why I paid? Because it was fun, and the company of the other FTers was valuable to me. If that's not valuable to you, don't freakin' come to the DO or event.

gleff

Before responding to some of the particulars I wanted to make very clear, because I have been a speaker at the Chicago Seminar DO, because I have been asked to - and agreed to - speak there again. And because I am going to speak at Frequent Traveler University:

I have never made a dime off of any of these efforts.

They are 100% for the education and benefit of the frequent flyering community. I have some experiences and knowledge and I am happy to dedicate a weekend or three to shae them with folks.

And noen of the organizers of these events have ever made a dime on them, either.

The 'fees' for attending are no different than when people go to other DOs and put up cash upfront for meals or other activities, so that the volunteer organizers don't get stiffed.

And in the case of these events, tommy777 and ingy have gone out of their way to find sponsors so that the participants aren't even picking up all of the costs.

Now, in the interests of full disclosure I will also say that ingy picked up two nights of hotel for me last year at the Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village (I don't recommend it for your next romantic getaway or spa retreat, by the way).

I agreed to speak at the event, and at the time it wasn't obvious that he'd be picking up hotel in fact when he invited me he said he didn't know if he could but he hoped to. That's cool, Ibought plane tickets (which were never offered to be reimbursed, which I didn't ask to have reimbursed), and I showed up and ingy picked up the room charge.

I did order a late night burger because the place is pretty remote and isolated and talking to other frequent flyers late into the night I missed all other dinner opportunities. Guess what? I paid for my own burger.

No one makes any money off of these things. They're hosted to share something and give something back to a community of frequent flyers.

And y'know what? koko, you know this already...

gleff

Some folks had concerns about the "FT" acronymn in FT University, obscure2k cross-posted something from OMNI:

Which I had already extensively answered.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16025735-post107.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16025962-post111.html

Several of the folks in this thread who repeated concerns know better, and certainly know me better.

We came up with "Frequent Traveler Awards" as descriptive of what we were trying to do. FT is a natural acronymn for that, sure, but wasn't the reason for the name nad provides no benefit at all to the event (most of the people learning about the awards and voting have never heard of Flyertalk, eg the millions of members of Marriott.. and American... and Priority Club.. and Delta who are learning about the awards in emails sent to them by the programs.).

Then Frequent Traveler University was added on by the folks organizing the Frequent Traveler Awards. The Frequent Traveler name was a natural extension and the acronymn a coincidence. Truly.

Prospero

Tommy,

Koko speaks for himself and the voice of dissension here by no means reflects the views of FlyerTalk and the membership at large. I am 100% confident of that.

Having organised only one do (a mere 40 covers), I doff my hat to all event organisers especially yourself and ingy who through dedication and brute effort have managed to deliver FT events unparalleled in size and complexity.

I am clueless as to exactly what has motivated this line of discussion and to be honest I don't care much for it. Having expressed my view on the subject I will withdraw now to the comfort of the BA forum.

gleff

Now this is really quite snarky, and even borderline offensive. Gee, what a junket!

Last year I gave 3 talks at the Chicago Seminar DO. I paid my own airfare to get there. IIn the end ingy picked up two hotels nights for me.

At the Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village.

It's a Holiday Inn in an office park surrounded by almost nothing. Not a vacation, although there was a Starbucks across the freeway.

I flew out there so I could help 500 other frequent travelers learn about booking awards, taking advantage of error fares, and maximizing their benefits in Star Alliance.

And Frequent Traveler University? It's at the gorgeous Sheraton LGA. In Flushing.

Anyone 'concerned with precedent' fine. But start off by saying thank you because I haven't seen many of the haters doing a lot to put on events for large numbers of frequent flyers, which attendance suggests they value, and at no personal benefit to themselves.

And truth be told these events aren't any different from DOs that have evolved. The larger events, not "hey lets meet for drinks at X bar with a happy hour special" but the major events that are days-long, they regularly require upfront payment. Or even dinners -- put your money on the table. Because food costs money.

Not a dime is going into anyone's pockets from Frequent Traveler University. To the best of my knowledge, I'm pretty sure not a dime goes into anyone's pocket for the Chicago Seminar DO either. It's all about the frequent traveler and a way of giving back.

And I'd suggest this: at the same time expressing concerns about rules and procedures, think about the consequences of those rules and how to replace the useful events for the community that those rules and concerns wold take away.

If folks don't want me to spend my time traveling to Flushing, New York and Elk Grove Village, IL fine, I won't, I have plenty of other things I can do with my weekends. Like travel to fun places or doing things that actually do bring in some income.

ingy

The fact that "this line of discussion" exists may be the exact reason for the new competition.

It sure makes it more difficult to continue volunteering the time.