Preview: New Program’s T&Cs
#31
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bangkok
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Titanium, BAEC Silver, TK Miles & Smiles Elite
Posts: 2,210
I had thought that these outstanding FNAs were going to be converted to new Points rather than remain a FNA which frankly I’d prefer as Points are more flexible. But a replacement 40k FNA is going to be fine for most considering the vastly greater number of hotels to redeem it in. I’ve always redeemed mine at the St. Regis Bangkok.
If if I get this correctly then will we get the option of a FNA at 50 nights (same as now) *and* another at 75?
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,171
#33
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
I am puzzled as to why they would do this. I can understand different treatment regarding various T&Cs for an upscale brand like Ritz Carlton, but why single out all SPG brands for something like points advance? Once you integrate Starwood within Marriott, then I don't see much of a reason to have different treatment for a large chunk of brands other than temporary IT issues?
#34
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: England - UK
Posts: 512
I am puzzled as to why they would do this. I can understand different treatment regarding various T&Cs for an upscale brand like Ritz Carlton, but why single out all SPG brands for something like points advance? Once you integrate Starwood within Marriott, then I don't see much of a reason to have different treatment for a large chunk of brands other than temporary IT issues?
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,678
1.3.c.i. A Member will only receive the Internet Access Benefit if the reservation for the stay includes his/her Membership Number at least twenty-four (24) hours prior to check-in for the stay.
So does that mean that reservations made less than 24 hours prior to check-in will not include complimentary internet?
So does that mean that reservations made less than 24 hours prior to check-in will not include complimentary internet?
#36
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 301
I am puzzled as to why they would do this. I can understand different treatment regarding various T&Cs for an upscale brand like Ritz Carlton, but why single out all SPG brands for something like points advance? Once you integrate Starwood within Marriott, then I don't see much of a reason to have different treatment for a large chunk of brands other than temporary IT issues?
#37
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,570
There's a lot left unsaid with this "draft". Just focusing on lifetime status, unless I missed something:
1. As mentioned upstream, it doesn't differentiate between prior Marriott years and prior SPG years so, on the surface, it appears not to count prior Marriott years in the manner that they were "counted" under the Marriott system. For some people (myself included), this makes the difference between 9 and 10 status years. That would stink.
2. It doesn't talk about counting prior Marriott gold years as platinum years for purposes of lifetime status. A big deal for those Marriott members who have been assured this was going to be done.
3. It doesn't address counting two years of status for years in which they were achieved under both legacy programs. Also doesn't specify that years achieved by linking don't count.
It also specifies that the Lifetime Status Criteria must be met "during the Member's participation in the Loyalty Program". The "Loyalty Program" is a defined term and is specified to begin in August 2018. This is obviously a drafting error and not what is meant (at least not without further clarification). The fact that this sentence doesn't address the prior years under the legacy programs gives me a little hope that the years of status under the legacy programs are simply not addressed (as opposed to being treated the same as future years).
(I also think that credit card nights counting toward status should be included as Section 4.2.b.(iii) not just via some links. I'd like clarification in the T and C that, for example, extra nights earned through spending on the legacy Chase Marriott card count.)
1. As mentioned upstream, it doesn't differentiate between prior Marriott years and prior SPG years so, on the surface, it appears not to count prior Marriott years in the manner that they were "counted" under the Marriott system. For some people (myself included), this makes the difference between 9 and 10 status years. That would stink.
2. It doesn't talk about counting prior Marriott gold years as platinum years for purposes of lifetime status. A big deal for those Marriott members who have been assured this was going to be done.
3. It doesn't address counting two years of status for years in which they were achieved under both legacy programs. Also doesn't specify that years achieved by linking don't count.
It also specifies that the Lifetime Status Criteria must be met "during the Member's participation in the Loyalty Program". The "Loyalty Program" is a defined term and is specified to begin in August 2018. This is obviously a drafting error and not what is meant (at least not without further clarification). The fact that this sentence doesn't address the prior years under the legacy programs gives me a little hope that the years of status under the legacy programs are simply not addressed (as opposed to being treated the same as future years).
(I also think that credit card nights counting toward status should be included as Section 4.2.b.(iii) not just via some links. I'd like clarification in the T and C that, for example, extra nights earned through spending on the legacy Chase Marriott card count.)
#38
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
It is likely meant to impact people booking without any loyalty number in the reservation who arrive at the hotel, find out if they sign up they get free internet and have the FD add it. If you book directly through your account that is not adding it after the fact. It was in there from the start—even if you booked within 24 hours.
#39
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,079
A lot of these were answered via members.marriott.com. Since the merged program T&Cs is more ongoing and the merging is more of a one time process, that makes sense.
The way years are counted in terms of earning lifetime status in the merged program is consistent in the way that they were at SPG. For example, if I hit 50 nights (new plat level in merged, old gold in MR) in 2017, that's a year at platinum. If I didn't reach the 50 night level in 2018, I would enjoy old gold/new plat benefits for that year, but it wouldn't count as a year of status for lifetime qualification.
Hard to say the current (about to be legacy) MR Lifetime criteria do not include years at a particular status level, just points and nights. And even when MR lifetime criteria did include years (a long time ago), it was just years of being in Marriott rewards - not years at a particular status level or higher.
We don't have to assume anything on this because it's been officially confirmed elsewhere:
Again answered here:
Not sure what you mean by this. The ambiguity that I'm aware of is that merging will potentially not count the number of years in the other program if the person is trying to qualify by end 2018 under their legacy program's rules (for MR 250 night/1.2m pts, 500/1.6m, and 750/2m respectively; for SPG, 250 nights/7 years gold and 500 nights/10 years plat) via the merged activity.
For the new lifetime criteria, including the 750 nights + 10 years at Plat (50 night level) or higher to achieve grandfathered LTPP, it's been spelled out that combined activity is going to count on members.marriott.com and in the T&C.
I don't follow what you mean here. The first paragraphs of the T&C define that the Loyalty Program is a successor of old MR and SPG, etc. (the "Legacy programs") and the Lifetime status criteria have mapping for the legacy MR/SPG lifetime activity...
Fair, but as far as I can see in the current non-merged MR T&C, the 15 nights from the card and additional night per $3K spent on the old Chase card is not there either. EDIT: Never mind, they are present in the non-merged T&C..
There's a lot left unsaid with this "draft". Just focusing on lifetime status, unless I missed something:
1. As mentioned upstream, it doesn't differentiate between prior Marriott years and prior SPG years so, on the surface, it appears not to count prior Marriott years in the manner that they were "counted" under the Marriott system. For some people (myself included), this makes the difference between 9 and 10 status years. That would stink.
1. As mentioned upstream, it doesn't differentiate between prior Marriott years and prior SPG years so, on the surface, it appears not to count prior Marriott years in the manner that they were "counted" under the Marriott system. For some people (myself included), this makes the difference between 9 and 10 status years. That would stink.
Hard to say the current (about to be legacy) MR Lifetime criteria do not include years at a particular status level, just points and nights. And even when MR lifetime criteria did include years (a long time ago), it was just years of being in Marriott rewards - not years at a particular status level or higher.
Originally Posted by Members.marriott.com
We are keeping members “whole” in the applicable night tier in which they earned their Elite status. Example: If a member has 4 years of Elite status at the 50 night level (Gold Elite status) they will be counted in August and beyond as 4 years at the new 50 night level (Platinum Elite status). Only the names of the levels are changing. How we account for tenure is not changing.
Originally Posted by members.marriott.com
A Lifetime status level is determined by the total Elite years achieved at that level or a higher level. For example, Rewards Gold Elite and SPG Gold years are combined and applied toward the total number of Elite years needed for the new Lifetime Gold Elite status — but Rewards Silver Elite years are not because Silver Elite is a lower level than Gold Elite. If you achieved Elite status in both Rewards and SPG in the same year, you’ll receive credit for two Elite years.
For the new lifetime criteria, including the 750 nights + 10 years at Plat (50 night level) or higher to achieve grandfathered LTPP, it's been spelled out that combined activity is going to count on members.marriott.com and in the T&C.
It also specifies that the Lifetime Status Criteria must be met "during the Member's participation in the Loyalty Program". The "Loyalty Program" is a defined term and is specified to begin in August 2018. This is obviously a drafting error and not what is meant (at least not without further clarification). The fact that this sentence doesn't address the prior years under the legacy programs gives me a little hope that the years of status under the legacy programs are simply not addressed (as opposed to being treated the same as future years).
#40
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,570
I recognize that most of these questions have been answered (some more clearly than others), but it would have been nice to have had those answers explicitly addressed in the final terms and conditions. Going forward, the terms and conditions will govern, not potentially ambiguous statements made in what are essentially marketing materials (members.marriott.com). However, I get your point about the one-time nature of most of these issues. As almost all of my points relate to lifetime status achieved by past behavior, we will know soon enough. I just hope that the old "rules" in existence at the time of occurrence will be applied to past events, rather than the new rules.
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,755
#42
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,017
Why is this shocking? The SPG Free Night Award is for a Cat 5 hotel. I have one outstanding from requalifying last year. Cat 5 Hotels go for 12-16k Starpoints depending on the season. So 36-48k Marriott Points. Not wildly out.
I had thought that these outstanding FNAs were going to be converted to new Points rather than remain a FNA which frankly I’d prefer as Points are more flexible. But a replacement 40k FNA is going to be fine for most considering the vastly greater number of hotels to redeem it in. I’ve always redeemed mine at the St. Regis Bangkok.
If if I get this correctly then will we get the option of a FNA at 50 nights (same as now) *and* another at 75?
And yes, you will get 2 annual choice benefits, one at 50 and one at 75 nights.
#43
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,079
Namely a different page that linked to it happened to not be marked NOINDEX, and as such was indexed by Google.
Another example of a page on that section of the site (like the terms and conditions) that is marked to not be indexed by Google:
I think it's an edge case for if the property does do daily or maybe multiple times a day (but not instantaneous) batch. Had that happen when I booked a Marriott stay in the morning and checked in during the afternoon. I called the front desk (couldn't use room # to get enhanced internet), they told me to call the provider, and the provider gave me an access code that still gave me enhanced internet free of charge, but I could see a lot of properties just giving people an access code or the third party internet provider just coding people for the standard speed internet.
#44
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
I wonder if my half asleep reading comprehension is quite bad, or t&c have some conflicting statements.
line 48, it listed properties which didnt participate in loyalty program
(rc millenia singapore, rc reserve etc etc)
yet on line 1396 :
Conflict with line 48 statements
line 48, it listed properties which didnt participate in loyalty program
(rc millenia singapore, rc reserve etc etc)
yet on line 1396 :
- 6.4.b. Premium Internet Access Exclusions. Participating Properties that are listed here participate in the Loyalty Program but do not participate in premium internet access for Members.
- AC Hotels by Marriott® - all locations
- African Pride Arabella Hotel & Spa, Autograph Collection®
- China Hotel Apartments, Guangzhou
- Convention Plaza Apartments
- Courtyard by Marriott® Baltimore BWI Airport
- Courtyard Hot Springs
- Dorado Beach, a Ritz-Carlton Reserve®
- EDITION® - all locations
- Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott® Arundel Mills BWI Airport
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Bristol
- Fairfield by Marriott® Dongguan Changping
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Keene Downtown
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Germantown Gaithersburg
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Memphis East/Galleria
- Fairfield by Marriott Nanning Nanhu Park
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Rehoboth Beach
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Waterloo Cedar Falls
- Fairfield Inn & Suites Wilmington New Castle
- Frenchman's Reef & Morning Star Marriott Beach Resort
- GE Healthcare Institute RiversEdge Condos
- Grand Residences by Marriott, Kauai Lagoons
- Hollins Hall Marriott Hotel & Country Club
- Hotel Arts Barcelona
- Jeddah Marriott Hotel
- JW Marriott® Hotel Caracas
- JW Marriott Hotel Seoul
- Mandapa, a Ritz-Carlton Reserve
- Marriott Executive Apartments Downtown Abu Dhabi
- Marriott Executive Apartments Dubai, Green Community
- Marriott Executive Apartments Riyadh, Makarim
- Marriott Maracay Golf Resort
- Marriott Ranch B & B
- Marriott Vacation Club® - all locations
- Marriott Grand Residence Club® - all locations
- Meon Valley Marriott Hotel & Country Club
- Mulu Marriott Resort & Spa
- Nanki-Shirahama Marriott Hotel
- Newcastle Marriott Hotel Gosforth Park
- Park Chalet, Shahdag, Autograph Collection
- Parkside Tower at The Ritz-Carlton®, Tokyo
- Penha Longa Resort
- Phulay Bay, a Ritz-Carlton Reserve
- Pik Palace, Shahdag, Autograph Collection
- Protea Hotels by Marriott® - all locations
- Renaissance® Caracas La Castellana Hotel
- Renaissance St. Croix Carambola Beach Resort & Spa
- Residence Inn by Marriott® Columbia
- Residence Inn Springfield Old Keene Mill
- Residence Inn Decatur Forsyth
- Residence Inn Denver Downtown
- SpringHill Suites by Marriott® Baton Rouge Gonzales
- SpringHill Suites Ashburn Dulles North
- Sprowston Manor Marriott Hotel & Country Club
- Sunderland Marriott Hotel
- The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas, Autograph Collection
- The Ritz-Carlton - all locations
Conflict with line 48 statements
#45
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: Starriott Plat Premier
Posts: 258
Because they lowered the value of your cert. You may not need the extra value, but it was lowered. It shouldn't have been imo, they gave you a reward and the value should remain constant (or increase) until expiry.
And yes, you will get 2 annual choice benefits, one at 50 and one at 75 nights.
And yes, you will get 2 annual choice benefits, one at 50 and one at 75 nights.
I'm sitting on 45 nights in FY2018 at the moment hence i'm wondering if:
a. I should hold off till after 18th Aug to clock my 5 stays (this should bump me up to the new plat & get the new 5 SNA awards)
or
b. Clock the 5 stays now to get Gold and then get mapped to the new program as a platinum. (But i suppose there is a risk of the 5 SNA awards not being awarded since technically this is the legacy program?)
Finally, i can still opt to "stay" in the old program until 31st Dec 2018? All i need to do is not initiate the combine request?
Thanks.
Edited Afternote: Realized this is an SPG Thread hence I am sorry i posted Marriott related questions here
Last edited by xar; Aug 12, 2018 at 10:08 pm