Star & oneWorld
 

Well, it's almost the end of another year for my travels and I couldn't help but wonder whether I should stick with Star next year.

I'll be doing a bunch of NYC-Asia (HKG, TPE, NRT) & NYC to Europe (LHR) next year. I think both alliance covers these two areas well (CX in Asia and BA in Europe). So should I stick with Star? One advantage of oneWorld is the ability to combine different alliance carriers for rewards. I don't believe I can do that with Star (correct me if I'm wrong.)

If I do go with oneWorld, which carrier? I'm thinking of CP (assuming they don't tank) since I'm under the impression that I can get status points on any trans-atlantic flights regardless of whether it is CP, AA, or BA whereas you have that limitation with AAdvantage and Executive Club.

Comments???? Thanks.

limited combinations are possible with Star. I am aware of this one: a LH transatlantic award-ticket allows one UA N-America-segment to be added (into the same award ticket). There are others - but I never used them and don't know the details.

Award tickets on LH (free or upgrades) redeeming miles from UA do allow you to fly to ANY destination in the US - wether it is one segment or more. Example: Palm Springs, routing could possibly be DUS-NYC-LAX-PSP.

Restriction: NO STOPOVERS

Seawolf

The quality of the answers you get is going to be related to the amount of information you give - you really need to be very specific about what you fly and what you want to gain to get advice appropriate to your situation.

If getting multi-carrier awards is important then Oneworld is great but even their individual programs differ - on Asia Miles there is a 2 carrier award class as long as one is CX which requires fewer miles than the Oneworld multi-carrier rewards. On the other programs you can't combine carriers on the same award except for the Oneworld Award and some AA combinations with European and South American carriers in AAdvantage.

I think that the only multi-carrier award in STAR Alliance (except for domestic connecting space) is a Europe-South America-North America circle trip available on LH and UA through Miles and More.

Within Oneworld there are big differences in the points required for a particular award - again what you want your points for is important to know to be able to give any sort of helpful advice. For example CP have a 1st class award on BA North America- London- Australia for 150000 miles the equivalent award with Asia Miles is 210000 miles and with AAdvantage I think its 280000 miles. ( Although I'd be a bit reluctant to invest my points in CP until their current situation is clarified!)

If your paid travel is mainly economy class then getting elite status and the consequent upgrade certificates and elite-status bonus points make CP and AA more advantageous. If your paid travel is mainly 1st or Business Class then the class of service bonus you get in Finnair Plus is hard to pass up.

As a Lufthansa Senator Cardholder, I'm in the same situation and have made the decision to switch over to Oneworld for a few reasons.

1) Oneworld's Explorer RTW fare is a much better product in terms of versatility (and miles earning opportunity) than the STAR Alliance RTW fare and the cost in Australia is about the same.

2) Having just flown return Australia - US on QANTAS in 1st class (using some very old BA points) the QF (and I presume BA) product I think is superior to United and Lufthansa. Those 1st-class sleepers are great - better than LH and I have yet to see if I ever will the UA First Suite. (Perhaps I'm just being parochial)

3)The Oneworld multi-carrier awards are just great - they are after all the same as the tickets I actually spend money on. They are expensive in terms of points needed but they now allow you to combine all 7 airlines on one award ticket with no limit on the number of stops as long as you keep to the mileage limit you have chosen. when Lan Chile joins in 2000 the possibilities for that award are going to be awesome!

4) On a personal experience level while I had some excellent inflight service on my way to achieving Senator Status 2 years ago I have found that the service provided by Miles and More when I've had a problem has been appalling and so Lufthansa has been relegated to the "Only To Be Flown If There's No Reasonable Alternative" list.

Good analysis 3544quebec!

HOWEVER, I think that all program rules will change again next year. That may mean that Oneworld RTW are not so sweet or that STAR Alliance may offer multi carrier rewards.

If SQ joins Oneworld or STAR, that also may change your thinking on where the service will be on the routes you fly.

The sooner we find out what each program's 2000-2001 benefits are early in the year, the sooner we can make our choices. The problem is that we usually lose a month or two of flying waiting for our renewal packages to come out.

Thanks BB

I agree that there are probably some big changes ahead once the Alliances are bedded down.
Personally though wherever SQ go isn't that important to me - the routes they cover are pretty well covered by CX/QF/BA with I think a similar quality of service.
The one big hole I see in both Alliances is Africa and which way South African Airways goes is more important to me - it seems to me to be a more natural fit with STAR Alliance and they have the bigger hole - at the moment to get from Australia to Africa you need to fly via Frankfurt, a detour of 10000 miles. Nor can you get from Australia to South America directly with STAR. Both of these routes are covered in Oneworld. Africa to South America is Oneworld's deficit but I'm not even sure if Varig still covers this route for STAR any more - or if they just codeshare on SAA flights.

So from a southern hemisphere point of view, Oneworld wins hands down (although NZ covers the South Pacific Islands like no-one else.)
I suppose its just another example of whatever your flight patterns are will determine which is the best alliance.

already now StarAlliance offers (no need to connect through FRA) links via Asia from Australia to South Africa; and also a direct flight Sout Africa - South America:
[*]Ansett or Thai flying Australia - Asia[*]Varig flying Hong Kong / Bangkok - Johannesburg[*]Varig flying also Johannesburg - Sao Paulo

Excellent summary 3544quebec and BB takes the words from my mouth. The ongoing changes are incredible and becoming more intolerable. How can you "plan" for such a fickle and changeable thing? Changes in alliances and routes etc are becoming as common as changes in airfares and delays! It personally drives me bonkers!

Sorry Rudi

But unless Varig have re-instated the route in the last week it has been at least a year since Varig pulled out of the HKG-BKK-GRU route. What I'm not sure of is if they have also pulled out of the JNB-GRU route. I know they code-share on the two SA flights but I'm not sure if they still have their own flights. As you know non-alliance operated code-shares are not permitted on the STAR RTW fare which also rules out BKK-JNB on TG as this is also SA operated.

So I stand by my assessment that connections in the Southern Hemisphere are a bit of a hole for STAR.

I wouldn't exactly say that Australia to South Africa (JNB) is easy on Qantas/Oneworld.

Three flights a week only on Qantas without going through Asia. 17-20 hours each depending if you go via Harare or direct.

SQ does daily (?) flights and they only take 24 hr SYD-SIN-JNB. More flexibility there. The key is SQ is not in Star or Oneworld yet.

Thai does 3 weeklies from BKK to JNB but the connect from SYD is short (half hour). If you only have carry on maybe? Time would not be much different than longer QF flights (ie. 21 hour total travel time).

I wouldn't call any but the SQ service to be adequate.

Forgot to mention that similarly OK to the SQ route would be Cathay SYD-JNB via HKG (but on the return you will have a much longer layover in HKG on CX compared to SIN on SQ).

[This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 09-20-1999).]

You've got a very strange way of judging an adequate service BlondeBomber.

QANTAS have 5 flights a week 1 originating in Melbourne via Perth to JNB and 4 in Sydney only one of which stops in Harare before JNB. The average flight time for the QANTAS flights is 15 1/2 hours from SYD-JNB.The one flight via HRE takes 18 1/2hrs.

SQ has 6 flights a week 2 of which stop in Mauritius and an average time from SYD/MEL/BSN of about 21 hrs - maybe,but only maybe, from Darwin they have a more convenient service.

As I said in the previous post the TG flight isn't available on the STAR RTW fare as its operated by SA. As for the TG flight being the same length as the QF one - SYD-BKK 9hrs, there's a 1/2 hr connection ( Iwouldn't want to rely on that at BKK where you often have to bus it from plane to terminal),BKK-JNB 10hrs for a total time of
21 1/2 hrs. On the return you have an 8-10 hr wait in BKK. Almost 50% more time from origin to destination is a lot more flying time in my book!

Not forgetting of course (as Sydney people are apt to do) that Australia is more than just Sydney - the comparisons ex-Adelaide and Perth are much more favourable for QF

The only point I would grant you about the SQ and CX services as being superior are that they have a 1st class cabin whereas QF don't to Africa. SAA do they and there frequency/flight duration is similar to QF



[This message has been edited by 3544quebec (edited 09-20-1999).]

Generally I am in agreement with your thoughts and we are splitting hairs. Travelling an extra 4 hours would not be a big deal for me, 7 might be.

I just prefer a service that runs daily. When travelling to Africa it becomes even more important as there are few alternate choices out of some locations if there is a problem with one carrier's equipment. If you are connecting to a transoceanic flight it's nice to know you won't be cooling your heels for several days waiting for the next flight.

Begging to differ on the number of flights--but I just checked on Qantas and it is still only 3X a week on QF63 from SYD/PER/JNB and 1X per week on QF23 via HAR SYD/PER/JNB. Melbourne is not listed other than as connecting to QF23 or 63 via PER. It seems to be discontinued (it was in earlier schedules but does not show now). Maybe it is a seasonal route?

The total travel time (including brief layovers) from SYD is 17 hr 15 min to 19 hr. 55 min depending if you stop in HAR. I agree if you are in Perth that there is an advantage to Oneworld to get to Africa (and there are other advantages of Perth too!).

I was really looking forward to somewhen in 2000 or 2001 doing a StarAlliance rtw trip including the Sidney-Johanneburg-Sao Paulo segments on VARIG (but that early dream planning was based on VARIG timetables dating back to 1998). http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

But who knows how the StarAlliance partnership (and others) and the rtw-ticket-rules will look alike then http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Don't quote me for saying this...but SQ is about $1000 cheaper sometimes than a direct Sydney-Jo'burg on SAA or Qantas. And that's how they can convince some folks to fly the extra longer hours. Or maybe it's the enticing offer to stopover enroute in Mauritius? Or their combination fare offer to fly them through to Europe on Swissair? Or could it even be their inflight service?

Some people are williing to forgo points for cheaper fares. As most fares on SQ are in Q or X class, these fares cannot earn points on any programme. Yet - people still take them.