WN going to Hawaii
#76
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Honolulu, Hawaiʻi [+MKK4 EBBER R577 EDSEL R577 ELKEY EXERT]
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Excerpts from the newspaper in Honolulu this morning:
Full article is here ( http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...ts-state-says/ ) behind a paywall.
Airline analyst Hunter Keay of New York-based Wolfe Research wrote in an Oct. 6 research note that using 30 prior Southwest route announcements and U.S. Department of Transportation data as a guide that he is guessing Southwest will launch six routes to Hawaii with once-daily service. His projected city pairings are Los Angeles, Oakland, San Diego and Phoenix to Honolulu and/or Maui. All six routes would overlap with Hawaiian Airlines, he wrote.
But Keay, speculating ahead of Southwest’s announcement, wrote that he doesn’t see Southwest succeeding in Hawaii because — among several things — it lacks the on-board products to compete in Hawaii against airlines that are larger and offer a full-service option for higher income Hawaii vacationers. He also said Southwest’s “bags fly free” policy could create turnaround time headaches since an estimated 68 percent of passengers to Hawaii check bags, and that there could be potential service problems if bags are lost. He also said there could be lots of passengers redeeming frequent flier points to travel to Hawaii, which could disrupt Southwest’s pricing.
“It’s perhaps safe to say (Southwest) may grow there initially and not grow too much thereafter, if history is a guide,” he wrote. “We believe (Southwest) will disrupt (Hawaiian Airlines) for a short period of time before pulling back or even abandoning service to Hawaii altogether after failing to gain traction there.”
But Keay, speculating ahead of Southwest’s announcement, wrote that he doesn’t see Southwest succeeding in Hawaii because — among several things — it lacks the on-board products to compete in Hawaii against airlines that are larger and offer a full-service option for higher income Hawaii vacationers. He also said Southwest’s “bags fly free” policy could create turnaround time headaches since an estimated 68 percent of passengers to Hawaii check bags, and that there could be potential service problems if bags are lost. He also said there could be lots of passengers redeeming frequent flier points to travel to Hawaii, which could disrupt Southwest’s pricing.
“It’s perhaps safe to say (Southwest) may grow there initially and not grow too much thereafter, if history is a guide,” he wrote. “We believe (Southwest) will disrupt (Hawaiian Airlines) for a short period of time before pulling back or even abandoning service to Hawaii altogether after failing to gain traction there.”
#77
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 10,458
Excerpts from the newspaper in Honolulu this morning:
Full article is here ( http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...ts-state-says/ ) behind a paywall.
Full article is here ( http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...ts-state-says/ ) behind a paywall.
Yes, Southwest is going to have to look at FF redemptions, but they have already allowed for higher numbers of points on certain routes at certain times. I would suspect the same will happen on the Hawaii routes.
As for checked bags, is Hawaii any different than some of the Caribbean or Central America destinations that WN is now serving? I would guess that passengers are more likely to check bags there as well. They just have to have the proper number of baggage handlers on duty. And, yes, they will have to have longer turn times in Hawaii no doubt.
#78
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
I agree that Southwest needs to come up with thoughtful free snacks for HI routes. I'd like to see Southwest do a snack that includes a protein (wrap or sandwich). I'd also like to see them cater mac nuts instead of peanuts (yes, honey roasted is possible).
I feel the overlap with the other three legacy carriers is more of interest. However, it seems the potential benefit is mostly the price battle versus the actual SWA service.
I see HA as a niche carrier. I think they still do a simple free meal too.
I also agree that LAS should be part of the launch group of routes.
Rasheed
I feel the overlap with the other three legacy carriers is more of interest. However, it seems the potential benefit is mostly the price battle versus the actual SWA service.
I see HA as a niche carrier. I think they still do a simple free meal too.
I also agree that LAS should be part of the launch group of routes.
Rasheed
#79
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
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#80
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That would be massively expensive to do. WN won't have enough -MAX to service interisland in a meaningful way and it's doubtful that is a proper use of the aircraft. This means servicing interisland with standard equiptment and ferrying that without passengers due to eTOPS is a tough tough situation.
#81
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
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The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
#82
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sarasota, FL (SRQ)
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Yes, many of us here understand the issues at hand better than "analysts" who still can't understand how WN exists without assigned seats and a hub and spoke network.
Why do you continue to troll this forum when you obviously hate WN?
Why do you continue to troll this forum when you obviously hate WN?
#83
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
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Today, in our local Las Vegas RJ newspaper, a great article on the huge number of Hawaiians who either live or visit here. Vegas was referred to as the "ninth Hawaiian island."
I totally understand why Allegiant failed on this route . . . it's Allegiant.
While LAS may not be the immediate inaugural route, I see WN adding it soon after HNL service begins next year. Boyd Gaming currently partners with Pleasant Holidays, I think, and uses charter aircraft.
Having a half million points right now with WN, I am still unlikely to use them on a near 6 hour flight with their present 3 X 3 seating. Ugh.
I totally understand why Allegiant failed on this route . . . it's Allegiant.
While LAS may not be the immediate inaugural route, I see WN adding it soon after HNL service begins next year. Boyd Gaming currently partners with Pleasant Holidays, I think, and uses charter aircraft.
Having a half million points right now with WN, I am still unlikely to use them on a near 6 hour flight with their present 3 X 3 seating. Ugh.
#84
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Or you can bring your own foods from home or you can go to concessions to buy a sandwiches. Whatever if you want. It's your choice.
#85
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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So you are suggesting that FT "experts" understand the airline industry better than a full time airline analyst?
The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
There are a number of reasons why WN has NOT started service to Hawaii in the past, including the need to qualify for ETOPS, the need for an appropriate contract with pilots and FAs, the need for a state-of-the-art reservations system (unlike almost all other airlines, WN was WAY behind the curve here), the need to run redeye flights which will be essential to serving midwest/south/eastern passengers, and so forth.
They have made a decision to wait for the MAX8's which should be able to make Hawaii flights more reliable (see AS threads on fuel stops and realize that WN's 737-800s (and MAX 8s) hold approximately 15-20 more passengers than others and, hence, more weight and less range.
So, I think I have a little more insight that the "average" FTer. Not perfect by any means -- but just adding my slightly informed two cents here... Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right... @:-)
#86
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
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I agree that Southwest needs to come up with thoughtful free snacks for HI routes. I'd like to see Southwest do a snack that includes a protein (wrap or sandwich). I'd also like to see them cater mac nuts instead of peanuts (yes, honey roasted is possible).
I feel the overlap with the other three legacy carriers is more of interest. However, it seems the potential benefit is mostly the price battle versus the actual SWA service.
I see HA as a niche carrier. I think they still do a simple free meal too.
I also agree that LAS should be part of the launch group of routes.
Rasheed
I feel the overlap with the other three legacy carriers is more of interest. However, it seems the potential benefit is mostly the price battle versus the actual SWA service.
I see HA as a niche carrier. I think they still do a simple free meal too.
I also agree that LAS should be part of the launch group of routes.
Rasheed
#87
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
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They sure hope you don't.
If they could predict the market, they wouldn't have to work as stock analysts.
#88
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,699
So you are suggesting that FT "experts" understand the airline industry better than a full time airline analyst?
The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
"financial details from a WN insider" would violate many SEC rules.
#89
Join Date: Feb 2006
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BWI-ORF is 30 mins. I think they WN has some intra FL flights that are very short. The only thing is they can rotate planes that do these short hops. The planes going to Hawaii will be unique. Not sure if that matters.
#90
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
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Posts: 3,502
Since you asked:
1. I travel to Hawaii several times each year, primarily for leisure, exclusively on AS, as they offer the only nonstops from SAN to OGG, KOA. Any competition that lowers fares is a good thing, so I have a strong interest in the subject. In this specific case, I do not expect much if any of the hallowed "Southwest effect".
2. While I am sincerely happy that there are people who have convinced themselves WN is their best option - leaves more opportunities for free premium seats and upgrades on AS, which I am occasionally forced to pay for - WN marketing has dangled this carrot for almost 10 years, ever since their Hawaii award partner was forced out of business. As a sales and marketing professional, I am intrigued by the responses when even the HINT of Hawaii service drives the media and loyalists in to a lather.
1. I travel to Hawaii several times each year, primarily for leisure, exclusively on AS, as they offer the only nonstops from SAN to OGG, KOA. Any competition that lowers fares is a good thing, so I have a strong interest in the subject. In this specific case, I do not expect much if any of the hallowed "Southwest effect".
2. While I am sincerely happy that there are people who have convinced themselves WN is their best option - leaves more opportunities for free premium seats and upgrades on AS, which I am occasionally forced to pay for - WN marketing has dangled this carrot for almost 10 years, ever since their Hawaii award partner was forced out of business. As a sales and marketing professional, I am intrigued by the responses when even the HINT of Hawaii service drives the media and loyalists in to a lather.