JetBlue to drop its one free bag next week: Will Southwest charge for 2nd bag?
 

According to http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jetbl...l#post24986757

JetBlue will charge for the first bag for tickets purchased starting some time next week. Incidentally, JetBlue's current second bag fee of $50 is almost as much as the $25+$35 that other majors charge for two bags.

This will leave quite a gap in baggage fees between Southwest and the other guys. Investors will pressure Southwest to add fees, just as they pressured JetBlue. I have no information either way, but I think the odds favor a second bag fee by the start of 2017.

As the OP of that thread, I am only going on a what a family member has seen in regards to the signs they have posted in the airport. She became concerned as we do fly Jetblue often and wondered if I knew about these new fees. She also spoke with one of the managers coming to clear a flight and the second baggage fee will be changing also; I assume to align with the other US carriers. I can't confirm if all of this is indeed true, although I suspect it is.

While I rarely actually ever check a bag, it is still nice that WN allows free bags.

What I would be curious is what % of people flying WN actually bring 2 checked bags. 2 checked bags seems excessive to me especially considering that there network is all domestic or near international destinations. I don't think the % would be very high so the added revenue would be minuscule but I don't think there would be any public backlash for charging for the 2nd bag if the 1st is free.

Reportedly only for bags checked by customers buying its cheapest tickets. Somewhat offset by launch of free Amazon Prime satellite-powered onboard Internet service with speeds of 12-20 megabits per second.

That's interesting. Over the years Southwest has repeatedly done opinion surveys on a change in which the lowest fares would incur change fees. This contingent bag fee is a similar concept.

I agree that for most domestic trips, two checked bags is excessive.

But the 2 checked bags are great for people that are actually moving from one city to another. e.g. A college student that moves from New York to Chicago, taking belongings from one home to another home, over 3 r/ts can move quite a bit of belongings with Southwest.

Yes that is great for that but how many people do that is the question. For example if only 5% of passengers check 2 bags and they reduce it to 1 free bag. Would that 5% fork over the fee for the 2nd bag? Or could they live with just 1 checked bag.

Another factor is with WN's current model it is important to board fast so that is where the free checked bags really help them by reducing the boarding time. If they add fees for a 2nd bag would that cause more people to carry on and potentially reduce the speed of the boarding process? It probably would but depends on the degree. I am sure WN has ran the numbers to see what the best option is for them and stockholders

If the revenue in minimal and there is a potential to slow down the boarding process, then why mess with it? I don't often check a second bag, but when I do, its nice to have it for free. OTOH, I do know people that can't travel with less than 2 checked. Why create a situation where they start comparing SWA to other airlines.

However ... if SWA would like to charge for the 2nd bag and then reduce the ticket price by half of the 2nd bag fee ... hmmmm ... I might go for that (since I rarely check a 2nd bag).

From a marketing point, something about "bag flies free" doesn't sound as good as "bags fly free."

Unless Southwest keeps it's current "bags fly free" but states in the fine print that it's only free for one checked bag and one carry on.

Bags Fly Free is a huge part of Southwest's brand. Despite the many changes they've made, I'd be shocked if they start charging for bags. Look for them to find additional ancillary revenue elsewhere.

Bags or butts. They're close to the max monetizing boarding order, so other ancillary revenue options aren't readily apparent.

I know I am a very small minority, but I almost always check 2 bags when I am flying for business. Change fees would probably still prevail for me, but charging for my second bag would certainly make it easier to jump to AA.

Count me among those who do.

I fly several times a year to visit family, attend conferences, etc. (I'm a graduate student). One bag is my clothing, for trips up to two weeks in length. The second is full of books that I either plan on reading (like I said, graduate student...) or need to have available for the work I hope to try and get done while I'm away from home. This one is probably small enough to be a carry-on, but why bother (especially with what nine or ten books can weigh) with lugging it aboard the plane and dealing with the struggle for bin space when I'm going to have to wait at baggage claim for my first bag anyway?

That said, I'm probably a minority.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Don't give them ideas...

True, but it's a limited case.

Just like my use is probably limited but since I'm allowed 2 bags internationally, I travel and bring back a boat ton of stuff from Asia. Having 2 free checked bags on Southwest makes it so I can fly into LAX and then fly home to SJC easily.

Are these long term trips? I can't see a week of travel needing anything more than a rollaboard. And even then I stuff mine til full because I want gym clothes and street clothes so I can hang out with friends.

I went to Asia last year with my boss with 1 checked bag because I was planning on stopping by to visit my relatives but man did that make me feel like I was a giant holdup already.

I frequently travel with two checked bags so that I have all of my essentials I need while away from home. I might be a crappy packer or my size 13 shoes just take up more space. Therefore, I fly airlines that do not charge for two bags. For me it's WN, US, AA and AS.

So what about people who use TrueBlue points instead? Are those treated as "cheapest tickets" or not? Does TrueBlue have multiple levels of redemption the way that Southwest does?

Every other airline that has bag fees charges them for coach award tickets. It's one of the stealthier devaluations these programs have accomplished. Jetblue will likely exempt Mint class (a superb first class product comparable to top tier international business class) redemptions only.

It's 2015, time to get a kindle or an iPad. I made it through grad school entirely by relying only on e-books. Eliminated a huge pain for me :D

If bag fees mean lower fares, I'm all for it. I literally never check a bag and generally carry on only one backpack, so I'm essentially subsidizing everyone that hauls half their closet to MDW. I like the ala carte pricing model; if I don't need or use a service, I'd rather not pay for it.

I typically check two bags but one is my girlfriend's bag and the other is my own that I might as well check if I'm already going to be at the counter. Besides, I usually check my own even when flying solo as I just don't care to drag it around with me and worry about bin space but if they did reduce the check bag allowance then I will adapt.

True, all things being equal and if the market has perfect competition. But did WN lower fares when oil fell so substantially recently? I just don't see them being this kind or magnanimous... Plus there turnaround times would increase astronomically.

This is a key point. WN relies on quicker turns than any other major airline. If pax start carrying on the kitchen sink to avoid baggage fees, it's going to affect boarding time, on time performance, and ultimately, WN's ability to schedule industry-leading turns.

They won't. Checked bag fees are not about the cost of transporting the bags, they're about generating ancillary revenue for the airline. Those who think fares and fees have any relation to cost of transport fundamentally misunderstand airline pricing.

Not when you are traveling for business. I am and I always have two pieces maxed to 50lbs. The 'two free' is the only reason I remain with LUV. The dismal on time arrival performance and frequent cancellations in the last two years is trying my patience. They add luggage charges and I suspect there will be fist fights for bin space for the 'C' crowd. And they will increase the turn time since more luggage will be carried on.

They are no longer the lowest cost. If LUV makes me pay for checked luggage and I probably have to bolt to UA. How low is that?

I'd much rather them charge for the second bag vs raise fares. In reality, your bags don't fly free, the cost is included in your ticket price. As for marketing, they can say "Your bag flies free" or they can keep it the same as your carry-on is free.

Untrue.

Fares are set based on the market, not the cost of providing transport. For example, SFO-LAX, WN fares typically match UA, even though UA does not give free bags for non-elites. And when airlines do charge baggage fees, they generate ancillary revenue, i.e., revenue that is not directly tied to the fare (and is treated differently for taxation purposes).

There are also no change fees. But any time a route pair is being fare matched, another route pair somewhere else is getting screwed with higher fares to offset the fare matching on the competitive route.

For example, with Frontier and Spirit covering PHL-ORD and PHL-ATL, Southwest has lowered it's PHL fares to MDW and ATL. But flying PHL to the Bay Area through a hub has higher fares now on Southwest than years ago when AirTran offered competing service on cross country trips. AirTran would be competitive for routes like PHL-ATL-SFO/LAX/SEA. Lately, I've seen US and DL being about $100 cheaper each way on connection flights than Southwest, but US is being competitive through SJC. Perhaps US wants to funnel some traffic on it's ORD-SJC flight so it's discounting PHL-ORD-SJC even though PHL-SFO fares are pretty high. Of course, there are some itineries that Southwest will not be competitive perhaps by choice.

My comment had nothing to do with whether or not fares are cheap on a particular route. There's competition on LAX-SFO, but the fares from 7 days in are generally extremely high on both WN and UA. Same with SFO-SAN (or OAK-SAN, which tends to price the same).

My point is that fare prices do not reflect cost of transporting bags. They are set based on the market. So it's a fallacy to say that "I'm paying for your free checked bags." You're not. If WN were to add checked bag fees, fares would continue to price as they price now - based on the market. WN would also collect ancillary revenue in the form of checked bag fees. Which might or might not make up for the pax they lose due to the reduced benefits.

The key is to strictly enforce carryon rules. Those with large bags get pulled out of line to deal with an agent. On WN that means losing boarding priority and so means you get a lousy middle seat. A double incentive to stick to the rules.

They're nice when available. Most of what I need isn't available as an e-book, and even if it were I'd have to purchase it myself since it's not like my library carries them, which I can only afford to do for a small subset of what I actually need.

Jetblue bag fee's and tier structure are now live as of this morning.

They all do it wrong. Checked bags should be free and carry-ons should cost. People should pay for the convenience of having their bags with them. I even think airlines would be able to charge more for carry-ons than they can charge for check-ins. Plus, think how much faster they planes would load and empty.

The airlines earn their baggage fees the most from infrequent travelers. (Frequent travelers are more likely to have status, or to be flying in a class where baggage is free, or even if neither of those, are more likely to pack way more efficiently.) Infrequent travelers don't tend to carry on as much as frequent travelers do, and tend to check more bags (because they haven't learned how to pack efficiently from experience).

So the fees are on checked bags because that's where the money is.

Every time I explain to one of my infrequent traveler friends that I'm a "carry-on only" traveler, they can't comprehend how they could that themselves. Half of them even check more bags than they might need to, simply because they load those bags up but then don't want to have to lift them into overhead compartments, so don't even consider carrying on bags that meet carry-on size restrictions. They consider it "convenience" to never have to lift a heavy bag above their heads (not to always have it with them as you state).

But anyway, why aren't flying Spirit? IIRC, they do charge fees for both checked bags and carry-on bags (and for much more more). You should love it there with all those fees you propose actually implemented!

^^^

I often check two bags for Christmas: One bag for clothes, one bag for gifts. Yes, I take a LOT of gifts. (I have a big family to visit.)

I travel for work and I always check two bags. One contains my sample stock and the other contains my clothes/personal items. I also have a backpack that I carry-on for items that I may need on board (iPad, kindle, chargers etc...)

That being said, I do see the second free checked bag going away but I'll be able to expense that charge anyway so no big deal. What they should do is allow free bags/carry-ons for those with status and charge those without status for the carry-on/second checked bag.

You really think that WN does not include the cost related to bags (fuel, handling, logistics, etc.) in the price of a ticket? For sure, bags don't really fly free. The cost is just included in the ticket.

There's a good CNN Article on This...

Your bags aren't actually flying free
For all the love Southwest gets for its "two free bags policy," your bags don't actually fly free on Southwest or any other airline.

As Bankrate's Brian Kelly says, Southwest's costs to transport your bags are included in the price of your ticket-- as they once were on other airlines. How else to pay the baggage checkers and handlers who help transport your bag? Or the gas for the extra baggage weight the planes must carry? Businesses that do too much for free are soon out of business.

Kelly notes that Southwest's fares aren't always the cheapest in every location. But travelers need to add in other airlines' bag fees when comparing prices.

"It would not be smart for Southwest to get rid of free bags," he said. "It's too much a part of their identity."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/30/travel/feat-airline-bag-fees/index.html?sr=fb070115airlinefees2aStoryGallLink

http://cnn.it/1GXqM0Y

Sorry, but that idea will never fly (pun intended) with most people.

To have to pay, to not have my most vital traveling possessions lost or stolen? To have to check in sensitive equipment like laptops, gadgets, to be tossed about, pilfered through unlocked / unchecked by luggage handlers, TSA folks, and who knows who else?

Um sorry, this idea is even dumber than it sounds.

Um, he said carry-ons at a fee, not personal items. Your laptop bag is safe, for now at least.