maiden42

It's something I was aware of previously from doing legal research on firearms laws. I have never seen an ATF or DoT memo on this, but I have also never looked.

There is no conflicting CFR that I can find, and I have been though almost all 400 instances of the word "firearm" that exist.

In fact there are two other sections that put both Southwest and TSA in more trouble.

49 CFR §1544.203 says that an airline operator MUST refuse to transport any baggage that does not conform to security measures of this section, and right below that is once again is the regulation with the language that only the passenger can retain the key or combination.

The below section was found by another member on a firearm-centric forum. Thanks to him for the below info.

The second section is 49 CFR § 1540.105. It's pretty self explanatory, but would apply both to TSA and the WN Agent.

rsteinmetz70112

It seems the TSA policy is to take the firearm to the passenger and have them unlock it. That however seems a security problem all by itself.

Introducing even an unloaded firearm into the gate area would be a security problem. I'm not sure TSA could determines whether a revolver inside a hard case was loaded or not. On the other hand if the firearm and the passenger were escorted to an isolated secure area (interview room etc.) outside the gate area then escorted back the problem is generally minimized.

expert7700

I believe Southwest's policy is there to make it 100% clear that *THEIR* employees are never to be given, or ask , for a key to a locked firearm-bag.

The TSA policy about handing them the key wouldn't work for a combination lock. (I'd suggest disallowing anything that does not require a physical key). them taking it and waiting for them to return it to you is probably the intention for you to enter a secure bag-screening area deep in the confines of the airport. (They wouldn't want passenger cell-phone videos of the bag screeners sleeping, stealing valuables from passenger bags, or screening bags improperly).

For me, I only would get paged if I used a hardened-steel locks that they can't cut quickly. Otherwise the TSA have just cut my padlock off a firearm instead of paging me.... THEN they have sent my bag to its final destination/connection airport completely unlocked which is blatantly illegal. When I complained in writing, they refused to even refund me $10 for a new lock.

traveller001

See http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...and-ammunition

previous comments superceded by new rules.

Biggest no-no is ammunition in the same case as the firearm. Or anything that looks like ammo... Inert snap caps for instance look very much like ammo under x-ray. There are also some laser bore sighting cartridges that might raise scrutiny as well. If it looks like ammo they'll be calling you back to open the case. Place them in another bag or outside the locked case.

Ammo (up to 11lbs total) has to be in original boxes or something designed for storing ammo. Loaded magazines aren't generally allowed.

If checking a handgun after signing the form you can place the locked case back in a bag that also contains ammo properly packed.

I suppose there's always a chance a TSO may do a random swipe and test for explosives... Of course it's pretty likely there will be as any powder residue will have nitrates.

maiden42

Incorrect. There is no law or regulation that prohibits ammunition from being in the same case as the firearm.

So long as the ammunition is in factory packaging or packaging that is design to carry ammunition you can carry it inside or outside the case.

traveller001

Latest revision of TSA requirements is 18 Feb 2014 which is way after my experiences.

http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...and-ammunition

It wasn't always this way.

bon95

I see info to the contrary - "loaded or empty"

From your link:

Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.

JunkDiver

Just spoke with a WN rep about the issue and WN's policy of no one getting your keys. This only applies to the ticketing counter/baggage check area. Once the container is on the conveyor belt, it is out of their hands, and will defer to TSA's guidelines.

Nowhere in TSA's policy does it state that the passenger has to be present when the container is being opened, but it does say that only the passenger should retain the key/combo: (iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

I'm very curious as to what would have happened to OP if they had stood their ground or had a printout of these policies.

Schneids

I am flying Southwest from Orlando to vegas and bringing my unloaded .380 in a hard, locked case. My unloaded magazine will be in the case as well. Per policy which I have read, I plan on bringing 8 rounds of ammo in the original store packaging placed in a cutout inside the locked hard-sided case that everything else is in. Will this be a problem?

Proudelitist

No experience on WN with this, but on another airline. Yes, check your luggage and tell the agent. They may also ask for regsitration/license info, so copies are a good idea. Use a trigger lock, keep the mag out and avoid actually bringing the ammunition because they are more concerned about the volatility of the powder in the bullets than about the weapon itself..it is an explosive after all. Legally you CAN bring the ammo, but it's another layer of work. Get ammo at your destination instead. Things will move faster that way. If you lock the case, then TSA cannot inspect it unless you provide the key, and that may cause problems as well. Otherwise you may get paged to TSA to open it for them. If you are happier doing that, then by all means. Just listen carefully to the PA in the terminal for your name.

Schneids

Wait, what???? Don't lock case? TSA and Southwest airlines policy clearly state "A locked hard-sided case".

TravelerMSY

I recall the weapons having to be in a locked, hard-shell gun case inside a soft side suitcase, or in any gun case inside a locked, hard-side suitcase. This was on Southwest.

I've never been asked to get out the weapon or to demonstrate its packaging to staff. YMMV.

Schneids

Yes locked suitcase. That's why the previous post confused me. I'm planning on leaving the locks on until IM at the counter then I'll lock them in front of them. I'm now leaning towards purchasing the ammo in Vegas. Anybody know if .380 ammo is easy to come by in Vegas? IM waiting on some responses from shops in Vegas as to its availability.

jinglish

Per the TSA, ammo is fine to carry as long as it's in factory packaging or something similar (like the plastic boxes marketed to reloaders); I've never heard of any extra hassle for checking ammo in addition to a gun, but I've never done it myself. I can't imagine you'll have trouble buying .380 locally, as any Wal-Mart with ammo should have some.

ChicagoKev

In an airport where they are accustomed to seeing a lot of firearms declarations the process, in my experience, goes much more smoothly.

That's an odd thing to ask for, seems very jurisdiction specific. What airport were you flying out of?

Same here -- I've traveled with 10lbs (just under the limit) of ammo, and Southwest agent didn't have any interest in the ammo box, just wanted to visually confirm that the firearm was unloaded and in a locked case.

At $20 a box, buying fresh ammo and discarding it before I fly home would get expensive, fast. Plus Wal-Mart generally only stocks "practice ammo", quality ammo can be expensive and difficult to find at your destination, so it make sense to buy one box that comes with a robust plastic insert, and check it through and back again.