New airlines for SkyTeam
 

http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=33453

Anyone want to go to Tashkent?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbekistan_Airways

Well, although new SkyTeam members are to be welcomed, this does not exactly compensate for the defection of CO.

The current SkyTeam scenario is really good for many WP members: genuine and unparalleled reciprocity with CO and KL, both of which are under threat. We also have limited reciprocity with DL and AF and even AS. And workable codeshares with others like CM.

Often I have three genuine choices for my itins: NW, CO, DL. While we may complain about the lack of reciprocal UG with DL, and the 50% EQM on low fare classes with CO, these are minor pecadillos compared with, say: StarNet filtering of awards at UA, or over at OW, the utter lack of basic FFP benefit for AA/BA flyers on converse TATL itins.

I doubt DL will maintain this level of integration. I wonder what happens especially to the NWKL JV, which is the bedrock of the alliance and, according to industry observers, an industry-leading contract.

Moving to CO will give the option of flying three domestic-based airlines after they join *A; CO, UA, and US, as well as good international partners. *A will be the only alliance with more than one US-based legacy.

Actually, Yes I do want to go.

Don't forget that a Gold or Plat will usually earn somewhere between 100% and 700% more miles for partner flights with ST, than you do in OW or *A, as you do not usually earn elite bonuses on partners in those alliances, and because partial credit fares are much more common (i.e. virtually all BA coach fares, and most intra-European SK fares earn 25% mileage). Even worse, in *A, is the maddening practice of having mileage accrual follow the operating carrier. Accordingly, when you book a codeshare, you have no idea how much your ticket will earn.

Why would you wonder about this? ST has already announced their intention, which is to (basically) expand the JV to one that includes DL, NW, AZ, AF, KL, and OK for all TATL flights, as well as (I think) the flights to Tahiti. My understanding is that this has already received regulatory approval. And I certainly don't see DL abandoning this, since both OW and *A are trying to go down the same path.

That would be a long flight on a 767ER JFK-TAS.

It says that they service JFK. I wonder if it is daily service.

Once a week (Sundays) and there is a stop in RIX in both directions.

What about Middle East Airlines? Skyteam lacks a Middle East carrier and ME has ties with AF.

Wow... Middle East Airlines would not be my first choice. Personally, I really wish we could snag Emirates or Royal Jordanian.

Syrian Arab, or Saudi are still free. I like the possibilities of the Syrian Arab 30$ return flights from DAM-LTK/ALP on the Yaks and Tupolevs. I would love to earn WP miles on those flights

I think that Uzbekistani airways is an obscure choice. they don't really have much service? seriously...how many people actually NEED to go to Tashkent besides people who live there? I would prefer that Skyteam have an Australian member.

emirates is a good choice as well.

The only airlines left that I really think add value to an alliance are the various Virgin products. It would give ST real alliance routes to SYD and MEL (when V Aus comes online), as well as additional European and US options.

Emirates, Qatar and Etihad are all supposed to be pretty good, and they're all based within about 300 miles of each other (ah, little filthy-rich oil countries :) so maybe each of the major alliances could snag one?

That's only 2 airlines.

MEA is joining as a SkyTeam associate member sponsored by Air France. They're in the process of a fleet expansion for this purpose.

Well Royal Jordanian is already in Oneworld and Emirates isn't interested in joining an airline alliance.

MEA is a good fit for SkyTeam because of their close partnership with Air France which is now in its tenth year.

Their drawback is that they're too small, but that will be changing over the next two years.

Notably AC does offer elite bonuses, at 0/50/100%. Not as generous as NW (which has 50/100/125%), but they're still there.

That's really the same as ST -- benefits depend on the operating carrier. On NW-coded but CO-operated flights, you might also only earn 50%. Ironically, while AC sells lots of tickets with 25-50% accrual on its own program, booking those same flights (at the same price) on UA paper typically earns 100% accrual on the AC FFP.

ACTUALLY....just did some checking and if I am not mistaken, if Uzbekistan Airways does join Skyteam it would be the ONLY one that flies to Pakistan. They fly to Lahore, which isn't even the biggest city in Pakistan.

Seems like a pretty big hole, especially considering that Karachi, the largest city, is well served by various *A partners (SQ, TK, Thai...)

NW has an agreement with Malaysia which serves Pakistan, but what will happen post merger?

Is there any official reason why MH is NOT being considered by SkyTeam? Seems like a good counter to *A's SQ and Thai!

That is only for AC flights. The only elite bonus for partner flights is 25% (regardless of elite level) for LX, LH, BD, and ANA flights. With UA's program, you only get elite bonuses on LH TATL, due to the JV. The Euro carriers tend to offer lower bonuses (25%/50%) so the ST advantage would remain, there, but I believe only BD offers bonuses on partners. Paid F does, on some carriers, bring 300% miles in LH and BD's programs, so those that often fly paid F, this can be a boon.

With the notable exception of the 50% EQM thing on CO, ST operates largely on the basis of the ticketing carrier, not the operating carrier. And even in the CO instance, the RDM accrual is the same. In most *A programs (perhaps AC is different), the operating carrier is the determining factor. Check out this wording from the UA website:

Heck, I could live with the operating carrier rule, but no *A carrier actually provides a conversion chart. If you are buying anything less than Full-Y, you have pretty much no clue as to how much you are earning. For those few differences in the ST program (e.g. CO flights earn 50% EQMs) this is spelled out.

Ah, so they finally announce the replacement for CO:rolleyes:

No thank you to TAS. Was there workign with the airline back in 2000 and it's my least favorative place I've been out of 50+ international cities. I found the city full of corruption and someone always trying to rip you off. Cold, sterile former soviet repulbic was my experince.

The nice move would be to dump AZ (pathetic under any light) and go for Austrian, which has very nice coverage of the near East and former SU.

Austrian will go to the same alliance as whomever buys it. My understanding is that LH is the only carrier to make a bid. AF/KL expressed interest but didn't submit a bid. AZ is pathetic, though. About the only European mid-major of any value left might be SK. LH is considered the front-runner for them, as well.

Uzbekistan is DEFINITELY on my list. Hopefully this will make it slightly easier, incl. the domestic flights.

Why dump them?! Does it bother you?! It serves quite a lot of people, has decent fares and 100% mileage earning in all classes (at least for WP, FB, etc). If you don't like them, don't fly them (this holds for all/any airlines).

AZ looks to be dumping itself. Last Saturday or Sunday there was an ad in the FT listing 5-7 insolvency court dates (and names of judges) for AZ between mid-November and late January. A colleague just flew home Sunday night on Brussels because AZ staff in Rome could only tell her that they would be waiting until after the staff should-we-strike meeting Monday to decide whether they were flying Monday.

Real nice, AZ.

I'm still waiting for CI to join. Don't know what's taking so long.

Somebody said GOL (Brazilian airline) was potentially going to join... any truth to that rumour?

I do too. Uzbekistan is quite interesting.

Regrettably I cannot recall who told me the story of his AZ flight scheduled to MXP that landed without notice in LIN. Of course AZ staff would do nothing to help him and - of course - he missed his connection ex-MXP. Maybe the plane was diverted so the AZ staff in LIN could go back home in FCO.

If this were an isolated example of the level of service on AZ, that would be horrible enough.

... and yes I try to avoid them. I would much rather AZ fail and be replaced by an airline that would be half as crazy and twice as reliable. YMMV.

As I recall, AF/KL did not submit a binding offer. Anyways.... I agree that it will go to whomever buys it.

Isn't SK also partly owned by LH?

I note that the article optimistically states "Uzbekistan Airways joins SkyTeam" and then goes on to mention "The first stage in negotiations between Sky Team Alliance and Uzbekistan Airlines was held in Tashkent"--i.e. FIRST STAGE

I have friends who have flown Uzbekistan Airways and they claim the service is absolutely dismal. I would assume that an airline alliance such as Sky Team not only coordinates schedules but also sets minimal service standards. From what I have heard, although I admit I have no personal experience, I would view it an absolute miracle if Uzbekistan Airways joined SkyTeam this year and was effectively in a position to offer the level of service I would expect from a SkyTeam carrier/partner--i.e. comparable to NW/KL/DL/AF.

Yes, but as this was (supposedly) a scheduled bidding process, it might mean that they missed their chance. However, Lufthansa might be having cold feet (or at least be looking to sweeten the pot), which might cause the privatization deadline to be extended and let AF/KL back in. I wouldn't guarantee, though, that the same problems that scared off AF/KL in the first place won't rear up again - namely, that AUA is a loss-making airline loaded with debt.

Nope. 50% is owned by the Scandinavian governments and the rest is publicly traded.

I can't imagine a scenario under which AZ comes out as less scary than AUA. At the very least Austrians as a people aren't prone to random strikes.
Thanx for correcting my incorrect perception.

Air France Wants Back Into Austrian Air Sale
 

"Air France-KLM has signaled it wants to get back into the bidding race for Austrian Airlines, but has not made an offer, a source in the state holding company said on Friday."

source article here

What SkyTeam should do is make Hawaiian Airlines a full partner and TRY to get Emirates, and GOL. :)

Also 'we' should be able to plan and purchase our trips on Skyteam.com ^:cool:

And what about each of the SkyTeam partners paint one of their aircrafts saying "SkyTeam" something like what S* does. ;)

To see a NW DC-9 ..soon to be DL DC-9... maybe a 'SkyTeam DC-9' :D

-BondAir007

Yeah ST needs to have some premium airlines, not just whomever they can get...

EK or any of the newer middle east airlines, Alaska, Hawaiian, Gol or some of the better Indian airlines, plus a good SE Asian airline (Malaysian) is a MUST for ST to stay competitive....totally losing compared to *A esp with CO leaving...