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Originally Posted by cityflyer369
(Post 15338492)
What exactly does "squared" signify in your list?
China with ST = China Southern, China Airlines, China Eastern Colombia with *A = Avianca–TACA, Copa Airlines [through Copa Airlines Colombia, formerly Aero Republica] USA with *A = United-Continental, US Airways ADDITION: I was sent a PM that *A in Brazil should also be squared with TAM & Avianca Brazil (although TAM may be moving to OW with LAN, the current status is with both in/going to *A) |
oneworld has a much different aim than SkyTeam (which is called the 'leftover alliance'). oneworld wants a smaller alliance (less intra-alliance competition) with quality carriers, and competition laws would surely prevent such a merger.
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Originally Posted by toyotaboy95
(Post 15344272)
oneworld has a much different aim than SkyTeam (which is called the 'leftover alliance'). oneworld wants a smaller alliance (less intra-alliance competition) with quality carriers, and competition laws would surely prevent such a merger.
For example, in Southeast Asia, I think airlines like Philippine Airlines, Lao Airlines, Bangkok Airways, Royal Brunei Airlines, may all join Star Alliance if these airlines ever "apply" to join. Star Alliance would even "accept" Malaysia Airlines as well (just that Malaysia Airlines will not want to). Did you my analysis above about the "great strategy" by SkyTeam to focus on "the most important countries" of the future? (e.g. BRIC, Next 11, G20, the most populated ones) For example, Indonesia is the 4th most populated country in the world. No one is looking to Indonesia now. No one is looking to Garuda Indonesia now. But that is a 250-million population (just after China, India, and USA). The potential market is huge. And SkyTeam "conquers" that market. And China as well, the biggest country in the world. SkyTeam is a clear winner in China (Star Alliance is far left behind, while oneworld is almost non-existent there). |
Originally Posted by toyotaboy95
(Post 15344272)
oneworld has a much different aim than SkyTeam (which is called the 'leftover alliance'). oneworld wants a smaller alliance (less intra-alliance competition) with quality carriers, and competition laws would surely prevent such a merger.
What SkyTeam seems to do better than other airlines is raise their members. When Korean joined it was a laughing stock for a variety of reasons including safety, now I would pick them over CX long-haul in economy in a heartbeat (although I'd even pick AA or UA over those awful CX seats). The cooperation they offer almost had JAL move until a catastrophic bankruptcy and initial change costs put paid to that. |
It would be interesting to have a discussion about the strategy of the three alliances here.
However, this will not work if people start claiming that a certain alliance is better than others, that a certain alliance is a "leftover alliance", etc. Whether alliance A, B, or C, is the best one, is in the eye of the beholder and very much depends on individual travel plans and on how people perceive the quality of different flight products. As much as there is no such thing as "the best Business class", there is no such thing as a "best alliance". All 3 alliances have carriers with more sophisticated products and carriers that are boarderline LCCs. The same applies to FFPs within the 3 alliances: there are generous ones, not so generous ones, some that match the needs of a particular individual, some that do not. So let's try to keep all these subjective assessments out of this thread here and see them as what they actually are - a mater of taste. Instead, we could focus on business facts, such as the number of passengers, the number of destinations, exposure to different markets, mid-term strategy, etc. In doing so, we could have a fruitful discussion. |
Originally Posted by MyTravels
(Post 15315597)
With *A has twice as many partners as either ST & oneworld (27 vs 13 vs 12), it's continuing to grow (Copa, Avianca–TACA, etc) and the only alliance with more than one legacy US airline.
That said, there's no way any proper competition authority would allow this. Look at the time spent, and concessions made, just to get the simple 3-way AA/BA/IB TATL JV approved. I don't see how the ongoing cartelization of the global airline industry is good for consumers, and a SkyTeam + oneworld combination would be a huge step. |
Do not call me rasist, but historically:
Star: Central European and Northern European centric plus Portugal (Turkey, Egpty have strong tie with Germany; Part of Siwss and Austria have strong tie with Germany) Sky Team: Franco and Dutch centric plus Eastern European(Indonesia and Taiwan used to be Dutch colony; Frenhc once occupy Vietnam...Russia and France used to be friend...Malev once was believed to join Sky Team with heavy code share and cooperation with both KLM and Air France) OneWorld: Anglo-saxon and Spanish centric (Hong Kong used to be GB colony, JAL loved the beatles....Lan and Iberia...the founding members including five airlines from five former British pride: GB, US, AU, Canada and Hong Kong) But not all the airlines in the alliance have such historical ties. There is more to be studies in this area. E.g. why United chose Star Alliance whereas why Delta chose SkyTeam? It may be just economic interest or strategic choice. But for many airlines in the alliance, there is background ties within the alliance. It is interesting to notice. |
Originally Posted by caytruc999
(Post 15344732)
I'm sorry to say, but I think Star Alliance is the "leftover alliance" instead, who seems to willing to take any airlines on the planet with a valid flying license.
SkyTeam does not have a clear objective of what they want to achieve. |
I'm sorry to say, but I think Star Alliance is the "leftover alliance" instead, who seems to willing to take any airlines on the planet with a valid flying license. By the time ST was formed in 2000, OW(est. 1999) and *A(est. 1997) had already collected the major carriers who were looking to join an alliance.
Originally Posted by caytruc999
And China as well, the biggest country in the world. SkyTeam is a clear winner in China (Star Alliance is far left behind, while oneworld is almost non-existent there).
There is more to be studies in this area. E.g. why United chose Star Alliance whereas why Delta chose SkyTeam? On a lighter note, what would the new alliance be called... OneTeam, SkyWorld? |
"Leftover", "major global carriers" and "number of airlines" are all very subjective terms that have little to do with reality (as does the ridiculousness that ST "only" has one US carrier, all the alliances originally had only one US carrier, it was ST which changed the trend when it absorbed "Wings" , and considering that Delta ate NW, which was in fact bigger than about 35 of the worlds top 50 airlines at the time of the merger, ST has enough US coverage). I am top tir on TWO * carriers as well as top tier on 2 ST carriers, as well as 1 1world carrier, they all have their pluses and minuses, however carrier count is not a real metric, as airlines like Air Adria, Tyrolean, Aegean, and a few others really do not generate too many passengers. All the talk about "better" carriers is a bit of a joke as I count several of the 1world and * cariers which hae dsappeared over the years due to insolvency, but cannot remember any ST carriers doing the same. Furthermore with the exception of Continental and its minions leaving ST, I cannot recall many defections from ST, but do recall several from the other alliances. I would say overall that 1world has been and continues to be in the weakest position for a variety of reasons, and that these may accelerate in the medium term future.
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Originally Posted by hfly
I cannot recall many defections from ST, but do recall several from the other alliances.
Originally Posted by hfly
I would say overall that 1world has been and continues to be in the weakest position for a variety of reasons, and that these may accelerate in the medium term future.
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Originally Posted by hfly
(Post 15417716)
I cannot recall many defections from ST, but do recall several from the other alliances.
I would not be so quickly to discount OW as the weakest alliance, one of the main stumbling blocks for its development, a proper alliance between two of the core partners, has been just removed. The presence of one or more core partners with deep links between them (AF/KL/DL for ST, LH/UA for *) has been a deciding factor for many prospective entrants in their respective alliances. |
Originally Posted by ByrdluvsAWACO
(Post 15418343)
Other than Canadian Airlines going broke and being bought by AC, there have been no defections from OW.
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1 World has lost Aer Lingus, and Canadian ( Canadian went bust and Air Canada picked up a few pieces, this was not some sort of merger), Swiss (which was a huge stillborn mess). And of course MExicana which has disappeared (again)
It should also be noted that 1w has lowered its standards substantially, one of the reasons Aer Lingus was forced to leave was because they would no longer operate a business cabin on s/h services, now 1w has gone out of its way to bring AB in, which is even more down market. * lost Varig, Ansett, Mexicana, Shanghai Airlines. At least 6 * carriers are so small that it is a joke that they are listed as full members. |
1 World has lost Aer Lingus, and Canadian ( Canadian went bust and Air Canada picked up a few pieces, this was not some sort of merger), Swiss (which was a huge stillborn mess). And of course MExicana which has disappeared (again). Swiss was never a member of OW and as you said CP ran out of cash and was bought. None of these examples fit the term of "defection". |
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