djjaguar64

Will SQ ever come back to YYZ and what really happened that they cancelled the route years ago? Can any one shed any light ?

Guy Betsy

YES. The year was 1990 (I think). And it was all AIR CANADA's FAULT!

SQ won the right to operate SIN-VIE-AMS-YYZ with full traffic rights. There were big fanfare on this route as it was SQ's first transatlantic route.

Literally within weeks of SQ's inuagural flight, AC complained to the Canadian govt that SQ was pilfering passengers away from its flights as passengers could have been flying on AC instead. Never mind that AC was not flying into AMS or VIE then. Never mind too that neither KL nor LH (OS wasn't flying then) did not complain about SQ being on this route.

Then the govt decided to ban SQ from taking 5th Freedom passengers from either VIE or AMS to YYZ and v.v. SQ was only permitted to fly passengers direct from SIN.

With that, SQ decided to pull out of YYZ and launched SIN-FRA-JFK within weeks of that.

I don't think SQ will ever return to YYZ. SQ has had frosty relations with AC ever since. Even though it 'code-shares' with AC on the SIN-LHR-YYZ route, let's be realistic about this. Will it ever work.

AC and SQ compete on the YVR-ICN route. Most people I think would prefer to fly SQ over AC. What do you think?

why fly

Not sure if it was true.....but the agreeement with SQ and OLD Canadian is due to be re-negotiated for 2006, and AC has no intention of flying to SIN, so they might drop permission for SQ to fly to YVR.

Guy Betsy

But it was AC who flew to SIN and not CP (then). But AC decided to withdraw from the route (YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN) in 1989. But it still 'holds' the traffic rights. CP never had the rights to fly to SIN. It had BKK I think.

In any case, if AC cancels out on SQ to fly the YVR route, AC effectively will lose all codesharing rights with SQ as well. I don't know if AC is getting any traffic with these codeshares, but still, it won't look very nice in the eyes of the Star Alliance.

djjaguar64

I am glad someone replied to my query. I do agree that Ac had something to do with it, the competition in terms of service was just too much for AC. AC is a transport flight not a service flight. I do hope that SQ will some into an agreement to fly here as i would prefer flying out of YYZ instead of flying into LHR or YVR with AC. I appreciate all the info. Thanks everyone.

B747-437B

What agreement? There is currently no existing aviation bilateral between Canada and Singapore. The SQ flights to YVR operate under a "special license".

why fly

When did the bilateral agreement expire?

B747-437B

The last two bilaterals were both dissolved by one side exercising its unilateral right to withdrawal, first by Singapore in 1986 and then after a new bilateral was signed in 1988, by Canada in 1991.

Rejuvenated

Slightly off topic. But this is not the only time that AC has complained about other carriers 'STEALING' passengers from them. It was approximately 3 yrs ago when PAL recommenced flights to YVR, they flew the route of MNL-YVR-SFO with fifth freedom of rights between YVR-SFO. Then a year or two ago, AC started to complain to the Canadian gov. that PAL was discounting their YVR-SFO fares at a rate that AC felt that they were loosing pax on this route despite the fact that PR was only operating this segment 3x/week. But anyways, the Canadian gov. carved in for AC and PR was banned from flying YVR-SFO.
Source: http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-dec...-A-2002_e.html

PR then continued to fly only MNL-YVR and then launced MNL-YVR-LAS just recently. If AC is still flying YVR-LAS, maybe they would have reacted bitterly as well . AC has also complained that CX has been given too much access to the Canadian market as well especially given the fact that CX has fifth freedom to fly YVR-JFK. AC has pretty much monopolized the domestic market by acquiring CP, so what else should they worry about, albeit they are in a budget crisis.

hongkongtraveller

Those people are just a bunch of crybabies. Whats flying without competition? AC already gulped all of Canada's major airlines (not including Jetsgo and WestJet), so why the hell are they complaining?

Q Shoe Guy

As the moderator pointed out there is no bilateral agreement between the 2 countries in question. What should really be asked is why is SQ part of an alliance which contains at least a few airlines which they don't get on with?

Guy Betsy

Give me CX between YVR-JFK anytime... even if their arrival back into YVR is in the middle of the night!

AirCanada: A319. You pay for your drinks in coach. No individual IFE.

Cathay: B747-400. Free drinks in coach. IFE in all classes.

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On another note.... SQ didn't get along with OS either at one point in time when OS codeshared on SQ metal flying between SIN-VIE. OS had to give up their allotment of seats 6 days prior to departure and even if people wanted to book on OS flight number, it was impossible to do so. I had a friend working for OS in the Singapore office and she said that SQ was impossible to deal with.

Rejuvenated

Absolutely. Agree 100%. Especially given the fact that flying SQ on this route can also earn Aeroplan Miles ^ ^ .
Maybe SQ can also consider doing SIN-HKG-YVR and secure fifth freedom rights between HKG-YVR. SIN-HKG-YVR would generate more $$$ than SIN-ICN-YVR.

zvezda

Why would AC complain to the Canadian government? It may have been Thomas Jefferson who said, "Only bad ideas need the defense of government, good ideas can stand on their own."

Rejuvenated

Does anybody remember what aircraft they used for this route?