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Old Yesterday | 7:04 am
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AC Pilot Licensing

The article is behind a paywall but I was surprised to read that there was an AC pilot who was promoted from First Officer to Captain with a CPL but not the requisite ATPL.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-for-flying/

That is quite an error by AC.

Last edited by YYJ _SLF; Yesterday at 7:38 am
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Old Yesterday | 7:24 am
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Originally Posted by YYJ _SLF
The article is behind a paywall but I was surprised to read that there was an AC pilot who was promoted from First Officer to Captain with a CPL but not ATPL.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-for-flying/

That is quite an error by AC.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...arus-9.7228077

CBC article mentions criminal fraud investigation by police, so, I'm assuming there is some sort of fraudulent process or documentation involved. So, not a simple error by AC.

Last edited by robsaw; Yesterday at 7:29 am
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Old Yesterday | 9:04 am
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Wait a minute, when I fly AC, I paid for a professional crew to fly me from point A to point B, and I expect them to be fully qualified, including being licensed. So, is there a refund here somewhere, a partial claim?
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Old Yesterday | 10:03 am
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Originally Posted by robsaw
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...arus-9.7228077

CBC article mentions criminal fraud investigation by police, so, I'm assuming there is some sort of fraudulent process or documentation involved. So, not a simple error by AC.
Although there may be fraud, it does not relieve the employer from the duty of verification. The compliance process at large employers for professional class employees has the designated compliance officer or HR person verify licenses and their scope of activity, against the professional registry. For example, the employer of a lawyer in Ontario will verify the licensing details with the law society of Ontario information. This includes class of license, education, regulatory actions and current practice restrictions.

It appears that while Air Canada checked to see if pilots held a license, it did not previously cross check with the professional regulatory registry. Air Canada has basically admitted this in its news release. Also, pilot licences are cross-checked by a certified check pilot twice a year as part of the recurrent checks and training, and Air Canada has reinforced its administrative practices when physically verifying licences. This includes verifying the original documents issued by Transport Canada.

And if we play connect the dots, Air Canada most likely had an internal audit, and the audit identified a compliance deficiency. The remediation action was to then audit pilot licenses against the Transport Canada registry. Makes me wonder how a deficiency was allowed to continue for 17 years. At least it was found and corrected. If Air Canada was relying on employees submitting license copies, it was behind the times. My employer pays for my multiprovincial licenses and has been checking my license validity in the provinces where I am licensed for the past decade.

The pilot is age 59. Mandatory retirement is age 60. He nearly got away with it. I wonder if he gets to keep his full pension.
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Last edited by Adam Smith; Yesterday at 10:49 am Reason: Fixed formatting for dark mode
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Old Yesterday | 10:04 am
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More details.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11895935/...roject-icarus/

Amazing that he got away with for so long. 10 years as a First Officer and 17 years as a Captain.
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Old Yesterday | 10:19 am
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Originally Posted by YYJ _SLF
More details.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11895935/...roject-icarus/

Amazing that he got away with for so long. 10 years as a First Officer and 17 years as a Captain.
ATPL isn't required by TC to be a FO, though mainline does require it for all pilots.

So slightly different scenario for the FO years.
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Old Yesterday | 10:55 am
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I can see AC ending his pension payments given the pension was earned through (alleged) fraudulent means.

This all begs the question, why didn't he just get an ATPL at the beginning? He presumedly had all the skills, knowledge and medical to do it.

Was he hired by AC as an FO while holding a CPL and then misrepresented himself when going FO>CPT?
Did he pass himself off as an ATPL from the start.

It's a mix of Suits and Catch Me If You Can
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Old Yesterday | 11:09 am
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Originally Posted by HerpaYvr
Wait a minute, when I fly AC, I paid for a professional crew to fly me from point A to point B, and I expect them to be fully qualified, including being licensed. So, is there a refund here somewhere, a partial claim?
If I read correctly the pilot produced fraudulent documents, defrauding Air Canada. Air Canada behaved as if the pilot was properly licensed because, that's how the pilot presented themselves to the airline. So I doubt any sort of compensation would be in order, aside from the pilot compensating Air Canada for his fraud.

That being said, however, I think a thorough investigation into how AC vets it's pilots and ensures that they are and remain properly licensed to perform this job.

What is most shocking to me is that the pilot spent 20 yrs with AC and was even voted to be the head of the airline's pilot's association. This wasn't some guy who forged some documents and then did his best to fade into the background so as not to draw attention to himself. He actively involved himself in the airline and the pilots association and yet no one suspected a thing or did further investigation.
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Old Yesterday | 11:21 am
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Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy1978
If I read correctly the pilot produced fraudulent documents, defrauding Air Canada. Air Canada behaved as if the pilot was properly licensed because, that's how the pilot presented themselves to the airline. So I doubt any sort of compensation would be in order, aside from the pilot compensating Air Canada for his fraud.

That being said, however, I think a thorough investigation into how AC vets it's pilots and ensures that they are and remain properly licensed to perform this job.

What is most shocking to me is that the pilot spent 20 yrs with AC and was even voted to be the head of the airline's pilot's association. This wasn't some guy who forged some documents and then did his best to fade into the background so as not to draw attention to himself. He actively involved himself in the airline and the pilots association and yet no one suspected a thing or did further investigation.
I think that's called 'hiding in plain sight'.

His forged docs must have been pretty good!

Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.

Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
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Old Yesterday | 11:30 am
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Originally Posted by billdokes
I think that's called 'hiding in plain sight'.

His forged docs must have been pretty good!

Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.

Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
900 flights divided over 17 years works out to around 1 flight p/week.

We don't know what fleet type he was assigned to, I suppose it's possible if he was assigned to a widebody like the 777 or 787 and operated one roundtrip more or less once a week.
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Old Yesterday | 11:39 am
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Originally Posted by billdokes
I think that's called 'hiding in plain sight'.

His forged docs must have been pretty good!

Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.

Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
900 flights over 17 years works out to just over 52 flights a year, or one a week. I'm no aviation expert, and though that may seem low I remind myself of the following. 1) Typical flight crew schedule for international flights are normally departure flight, overnight at destination, return flight, overnight at home for rest day, repeat. Plus the occasional 'weekend' off every couple three turns for sanity. 2) add vacation time for someone with high seniority, after 20+ years I would expect at least 6 week of vacation time per year. 3) does this number account for every flight worked or only those where he fraudulently acted as the captain. Does this number account for times where he acted as the co pilot?

Based on this I would not be shocked if a senior pilot physically acts as the captain on a flight as few as a handful of times a month.
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Old Yesterday | 11:50 am
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Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy1978
900 flights over 17 years works out to just over 52 flights a year, or one a week. I'm no aviation expert, and though that may seem low I remind myself of the following. 1) Typical flight crew schedule for international flights are normally departure flight, overnight at destination, return flight, overnight at home for rest day, repeat. Plus the occasional 'weekend' off every couple three turns for sanity. 2) add vacation time for someone with high seniority, after 20+ years I would expect at least 6 week of vacation time per year. 3) does this number account for every flight worked or only those where he fraudulently acted as the captain. Does this number account for times where he acted as the co pilot?

Based on this I would not be shocked if a senior pilot physically acts as the captain on a flight as few as a handful of times a month.
900 trips (not sure if they mean legs or trips when they mention flights) is 52 trips a year. If the pilot flew long haul in a wide body, an average leg could be 8 hours or 16 hours per trip. Multiply that by 52 and you get to 832 hours per year. The range of hours flow per year by AC wide body pilots is 750 to 900 hours per year. The TC mandated maximum is 1,000 hours per year.

The numbers seem to make rough sense.
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Old Yesterday | 12:10 pm
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Old Yesterday | 12:21 pm
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Originally Posted by InTheAirGuy
And Catch him they did...as Yoda would say...'Around he 'effed, found out he did'...although in the end I don't think he will fare too badly, kind of like Frank Abagnale.

Maybe he'll come back to AC and consult on 'Pilot Accreditation Fraud'?

Last edited by billdokes; Yesterday at 12:37 pm
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Old Yesterday | 12:29 pm
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