AC Pilot Licensing
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2023
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AC Pilot Licensing
The article is behind a paywall but I was surprised to read that there was an AC pilot who was promoted from First Officer to Captain with a CPL but not the requisite ATPL.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-for-flying/
That is quite an error by AC.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-for-flying/
That is quite an error by AC.
Last edited by YYJ _SLF; Yesterday at 7:38 am
#2




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,800
The article is behind a paywall but I was surprised to read that there was an AC pilot who was promoted from First Officer to Captain with a CPL but not ATPL.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-for-flying/
That is quite an error by AC.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-for-flying/
That is quite an error by AC.
CBC article mentions criminal fraud investigation by police, so, I'm assuming there is some sort of fraudulent process or documentation involved. So, not a simple error by AC.
Last edited by robsaw; Yesterday at 7:29 am
#3




Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: YLW
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Wait a minute, when I fly AC, I paid for a professional crew to fly me from point A to point B, and I expect them to be fully qualified, including being licensed. So, is there a refund here somewhere, a partial claim?
#4




Join Date: May 2012
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...arus-9.7228077
CBC article mentions criminal fraud investigation by police, so, I'm assuming there is some sort of fraudulent process or documentation involved. So, not a simple error by AC.
CBC article mentions criminal fraud investigation by police, so, I'm assuming there is some sort of fraudulent process or documentation involved. So, not a simple error by AC.
It appears that while Air Canada checked to see if pilots held a license, it did not previously cross check with the professional regulatory registry. Air Canada has basically admitted this in its news release. Also, pilot licences are cross-checked by a certified check pilot twice a year as part of the recurrent checks and training, and Air Canada has reinforced its administrative practices when physically verifying licences. This includes verifying the original documents issued by Transport Canada.
And if we play connect the dots, Air Canada most likely had an internal audit, and the audit identified a compliance deficiency. The remediation action was to then audit pilot licenses against the Transport Canada registry. Makes me wonder how a deficiency was allowed to continue for 17 years. At least it was found and corrected. If Air Canada was relying on employees submitting license copies, it was behind the times. My employer pays for my multiprovincial licenses and has been checking my license validity in the provinces where I am licensed for the past decade.
The pilot is age 59. Mandatory retirement is age 60. He nearly got away with it. I wonder if he gets to keep his full pension.
Last edited by Adam Smith; Yesterday at 10:49 am Reason: Fixed formatting for dark mode
#5
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Join Date: Feb 2023
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More details.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11895935/...roject-icarus/
Amazing that he got away with for so long. 10 years as a First Officer and 17 years as a Captain.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11895935/...roject-icarus/
Amazing that he got away with for so long. 10 years as a First Officer and 17 years as a Captain.
#6
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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More details.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11895935/...roject-icarus/
Amazing that he got away with for so long. 10 years as a First Officer and 17 years as a Captain.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11895935/...roject-icarus/
Amazing that he got away with for so long. 10 years as a First Officer and 17 years as a Captain.
So slightly different scenario for the FO years.
#7
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: NZ Silver, AC SE100K, Westjet, Marriott, Global Entry
Posts: 6,883
I can see AC ending his pension payments given the pension was earned through (alleged) fraudulent means.
This all begs the question, why didn't he just get an ATPL at the beginning? He presumedly had all the skills, knowledge and medical to do it.
Was he hired by AC as an FO while holding a CPL and then misrepresented himself when going FO>CPT?
Did he pass himself off as an ATPL from the start.
It's a mix of Suits and Catch Me If You Can
This all begs the question, why didn't he just get an ATPL at the beginning? He presumedly had all the skills, knowledge and medical to do it.
Was he hired by AC as an FO while holding a CPL and then misrepresented himself when going FO>CPT?
Did he pass himself off as an ATPL from the start.
It's a mix of Suits and Catch Me If You Can
#8


Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 465
That being said, however, I think a thorough investigation into how AC vets it's pilots and ensures that they are and remain properly licensed to perform this job.
What is most shocking to me is that the pilot spent 20 yrs with AC and was even voted to be the head of the airline's pilot's association. This wasn't some guy who forged some documents and then did his best to fade into the background so as not to draw attention to himself. He actively involved himself in the airline and the pilots association and yet no one suspected a thing or did further investigation.
#9




Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE 100K MM; Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 4,147
If I read correctly the pilot produced fraudulent documents, defrauding Air Canada. Air Canada behaved as if the pilot was properly licensed because, that's how the pilot presented themselves to the airline. So I doubt any sort of compensation would be in order, aside from the pilot compensating Air Canada for his fraud.
That being said, however, I think a thorough investigation into how AC vets it's pilots and ensures that they are and remain properly licensed to perform this job.
What is most shocking to me is that the pilot spent 20 yrs with AC and was even voted to be the head of the airline's pilot's association. This wasn't some guy who forged some documents and then did his best to fade into the background so as not to draw attention to himself. He actively involved himself in the airline and the pilots association and yet no one suspected a thing or did further investigation.
That being said, however, I think a thorough investigation into how AC vets it's pilots and ensures that they are and remain properly licensed to perform this job.
What is most shocking to me is that the pilot spent 20 yrs with AC and was even voted to be the head of the airline's pilot's association. This wasn't some guy who forged some documents and then did his best to fade into the background so as not to draw attention to himself. He actively involved himself in the airline and the pilots association and yet no one suspected a thing or did further investigation.
His forged docs must have been pretty good!
Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.
Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
#10




Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montral
Programs: Air Canada, Hyatt
Posts: 1,468
I think that's called 'hiding in plain sight'.
His forged docs must have been pretty good!
Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.
Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
His forged docs must have been pretty good!
Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.
Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
We don't know what fleet type he was assigned to, I suppose it's possible if he was assigned to a widebody like the 777 or 787 and operated one roundtrip more or less once a week.
#11


Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 465
I think that's called 'hiding in plain sight'.
His forged docs must have been pretty good!
Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.
Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
His forged docs must have been pretty good!
Really doubt anything will happen to his pension but it will be interesting to see what happens in the criminal case...I expect a slap on the wrist at best based on what the violent criminals get these days.
Some of the reporting is interesting as well...did the guy really only do 900 flights over 17 years? Seems a little low to me.
Based on this I would not be shocked if a senior pilot physically acts as the captain on a flight as few as a handful of times a month.
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2023
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900 flights over 17 years works out to just over 52 flights a year, or one a week. I'm no aviation expert, and though that may seem low I remind myself of the following. 1) Typical flight crew schedule for international flights are normally departure flight, overnight at destination, return flight, overnight at home for rest day, repeat. Plus the occasional 'weekend' off every couple three turns for sanity. 2) add vacation time for someone with high seniority, after 20+ years I would expect at least 6 week of vacation time per year. 3) does this number account for every flight worked or only those where he fraudulently acted as the captain. Does this number account for times where he acted as the co pilot?
Based on this I would not be shocked if a senior pilot physically acts as the captain on a flight as few as a handful of times a month.
Based on this I would not be shocked if a senior pilot physically acts as the captain on a flight as few as a handful of times a month.
The numbers seem to make rough sense.
#14




Join Date: Jan 2010
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And Catch him they did...as Yoda would say...'Around he 'effed, found out he did'...although in the end I don't think he will fare too badly, kind of like Frank Abagnale.
Maybe he'll come back to AC and consult on 'Pilot Accreditation Fraud'?
Maybe he'll come back to AC and consult on 'Pilot Accreditation Fraud'?
Last edited by billdokes; Yesterday at 12:37 pm



