QF Schedule Change Making a Valid Itinerary Illegal
Apr 17, 2019, 4:51 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,451
QF Schedule Change Making a Valid Itinerary Illegal
First time on a QF redemption using AA miles. Booked May flights for myself and my Mother back in November in QF F Class LAX-MEL-ASP-AYQ (J and Y on the domestics) and was perfectly happy with the itinerary without ever wanting to change anything. At some point, QF issued a schedule change (fair enough, this in a normal practice and I am very understanding) by pulling the nonstop MEL-ASP flight on my day of travel. Was never notified of this change by QF or AA. QF automatically rebooked us on a routing LAX-MEL-ADL-ASP-AYQ without reaching out to confirm with us either. That's fine (though a notification would have been proper), except that the MEL connection to ADL is under the Minimum Connect Time giving us only an hour to clear customs in MEL, switch terminals, etc... and even AA won't accept the re-issue due to the Minimum Connect Time. The original itinerary I booked in November- its schedule still exists a day prior (LAX-MEL-ASP-AYQ); however there is no award space on any of the flights.
I have spoken to Qantas Reservations (including a supervisor) and they are advising me to take the invalid itinerary as they rebooked me on with the invalid connection in MEL and that I will be placed on standby on the next available flights at the airport. They have advised that since I'm a on mileage ticket they can't protect me on anything legal since there is no space. Keep in mind- this is not a voluntary change or my preference to go the day before- this is involuntary due to QF making schedule changes.
I have also spoken to AA since they issued to the ticket. AA has stated they have reached out to Qantas twice on their back-end to get approval to move me to the proper routing a day prior, but Qantas is rejecting all attempts and have left the ticket as is even though cabin First Class inventory shows F9 (not by seat map, but actual inventory displayed in the system) LAX-MEL the day before.
And so I have been left hanging with my trip coming up in about a month. I have redeemed miles a dozen times and have never had a partner airline leave me without a valid itinerary following a schedule change they have concocted. We have a full itinerary planned following our arrival so this is a serious concern since the tickets were confirmed in November and no issues until now.
Wondering if the FT members down under (or anyone) have any advice for me as I have never dealt with Qantas before. Is there a QF advocate on FT who could help out with this? Or would anyone people able to PM me a contact either in the US or Australia who would be able to make this right and fully understand this situation?
Please and thank you.
I have spoken to Qantas Reservations (including a supervisor) and they are advising me to take the invalid itinerary as they rebooked me on with the invalid connection in MEL and that I will be placed on standby on the next available flights at the airport. They have advised that since I'm a on mileage ticket they can't protect me on anything legal since there is no space. Keep in mind- this is not a voluntary change or my preference to go the day before- this is involuntary due to QF making schedule changes.
I have also spoken to AA since they issued to the ticket. AA has stated they have reached out to Qantas twice on their back-end to get approval to move me to the proper routing a day prior, but Qantas is rejecting all attempts and have left the ticket as is even though cabin First Class inventory shows F9 (not by seat map, but actual inventory displayed in the system) LAX-MEL the day before.
And so I have been left hanging with my trip coming up in about a month. I have redeemed miles a dozen times and have never had a partner airline leave me without a valid itinerary following a schedule change they have concocted. We have a full itinerary planned following our arrival so this is a serious concern since the tickets were confirmed in November and no issues until now.
Wondering if the FT members down under (or anyone) have any advice for me as I have never dealt with Qantas before. Is there a QF advocate on FT who could help out with this? Or would anyone people able to PM me a contact either in the US or Australia who would be able to make this right and fully understand this situation?
Please and thank you.
Apr 17, 2019, 5:10 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: QFF
Posts: 12
Melbourne international terminal to Qantas domestic terminal is a 5 minute walk, and with express path / smartgates, immigration usually only takes a couple of minutes. I would think 1 hour would be enough time. Security at domestic terminal only takes a few minutes as well.
Apr 17, 2019, 5:19 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,021
QF advocate (Red Roo) is no longer on FT
You could try email [email protected] Is for Qantas frequent flyer's, but a real person does reply
What day of the week do you land in MEL?
Have they put you on QF769?
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlin...able/global/en
Transferring between MEL terminals is a 3-4 minute walk and up 1 level. Your risk is late arrival or a long time through immigration, customs & quarantine
Airport info MELBOURNE (MEL) - amenities, transfers, transport Click to open the wiki
You could try email [email protected] Is for Qantas frequent flyer's, but a real person does reply
What day of the week do you land in MEL?
Have they put you on QF769?
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlin...able/global/en
Transferring between MEL terminals is a 3-4 minute walk and up 1 level. Your risk is late arrival or a long time through immigration, customs & quarantine
Airport info MELBOURNE (MEL) - amenities, transfers, transport Click to open the wiki
Last edited by Mwenenzi; Apr 17, 2019 at 5:24 pm
Apr 17, 2019, 5:24 pm
#4
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,597
Is it definitely an invalid connection? What date is the travel?
Given that a new ticket has not been issued, you will not be able to get on the flight in USA - you need a valid itinerary in order to travel
Since you booked through AA, it was up to AA to tell you about any changes ; it seems that AA did not do so. It was not QF's responsibility to inform you of the change
It sounds like you will need to adjust your travel plans to fit in with getting a valid itinerary ; there doen't seem to be many ways to get to AYQ without an overnight stop enroute
I would suggest calling AA and asking the agent to speak to the Oneworld liaison to speak to Qantas and get it to provide a valid itinerary to Ayers Rock airport. There does seem to be a LAX-SYD-ASP-AYQ route
If Qantas is rebuffing contact from AA, then you may just have to accept spending a day in Adelaide and rebooking onto the next day's service to AYQ ( assuming award availability )
Given that a new ticket has not been issued, you will not be able to get on the flight in USA - you need a valid itinerary in order to travel
Since you booked through AA, it was up to AA to tell you about any changes ; it seems that AA did not do so. It was not QF's responsibility to inform you of the change
It sounds like you will need to adjust your travel plans to fit in with getting a valid itinerary ; there doen't seem to be many ways to get to AYQ without an overnight stop enroute
I would suggest calling AA and asking the agent to speak to the Oneworld liaison to speak to Qantas and get it to provide a valid itinerary to Ayers Rock airport. There does seem to be a LAX-SYD-ASP-AYQ route
If Qantas is rebuffing contact from AA, then you may just have to accept spending a day in Adelaide and rebooking onto the next day's service to AYQ ( assuming award availability )
Last edited by Dave Noble; Apr 17, 2019 at 5:40 pm
Apr 17, 2019, 6:31 pm
#5
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Seems the MCT in this case is 90 minutes.
Results from https://www.ExpertFlyer.com
Results from https://www.ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Connecting at MEL, Incoming airline QF, Outgoing airline QF Flight type International to Domestic STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I. ONLINE .30 .45 1.00 .45 OFFLINE .30 .45 1.00 .45 ** OR * ARE ALL QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 36 - FLT 400 - 1399 QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 36 - FLT 1400 - 2999 QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 80 - FLT 400 - 2999 QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 154 - FLT 400 - 1399 QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 154 - FLT 1400 - 2999 QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 172 - FLT 400 - 1399 QF-QF ID 1.15 FLT 172 - FLT 1400 - 2999 QF-QF ID 1.50 FLT 304 - ALL TRM 2 - 1 QF-QF ID 1.50 FLT 342 - ALL TRM 2 - 1 QF-QF ID 2.00 FLT 200 - 299 - FLT 5400 - 5999 TRM 2 - ** QF-QF ID 1.30 FLT 200 - 299 - ALL TRM 2 - 1 QF-QF ID 1.30 ALL - FLT 2670 - 2699 TRM 2 - ** QF-QF ID 2.00 ALL - FLT 5400 - 5999 TRM 2 - ** QF-QF ID 1.30 TRM 2 - 1 QF-QF ID 1.00 TRM 2 - 2 **-QF ID 2.00 ALL - FLT 5400 - 5999 TRM 2 - ** **-QF ID 2.00 ALL - FLT 200 - 299 **-QF ID 1.30 TRM 2 - 1 **-QF ID 1.30 TRM 2 - 2 QF-** ID 2.00 FLT 200 - 299 - ALL QF-** ID 1.30 TRM 2 - 2 QF-** ID 2.00 TRM 2 - 3 **-** ID 4.00 INTER AVV - MEL **-** ID 1.00 INTER MEB - MEL **-** ID 4.00 INTER MEL - AVV **-** ID 1.00 INTER MEL - MEB
Apr 17, 2019, 8:42 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,451
Thanks for the feedback- I have never posted in QF so wasn't sure how far this would get me, but I appreciate everyone's input/feedback. Your MCT post of 90 minutes matches up with what AA had stated as well. Below is the original itinerary and further down is what they "rebooked me on" with 70 minutes (not an hour as I originally miscalculated) except it won't ticket and AA won't accept it either because of its invalidity. The MEL connection does not look too difficult however any customs/baggage delays and the issue will arise during rebooking. I was also advised I wouldn't even be able to check-in for this itinerary in LAX. AA has reached out twice to QF and QF has not rebooked nor have they offered any alternative. I ideally would like to have kept travel same day, but am willing to even go a day earlier. So far, QF hasn't offered anything.
Original routing booked in November 2018
QF94 LAX-MEL in First Dept 10:40pm Arr 7:30am +2
QF796 MEL-ASP in Business Dept 9:25am Arr 11:50am
QF1854 ASP-AYQ in Coach Dept 1:50pm Arr 2:45pm
QF796 no longer operates on that day of the week I was scheduled to travel on
New routing that QF interested into the PNR following the schedule change.
QF94 LAX-MEL in First Dept 10:40pm Arr 7:30am +2
QF675 MEL-ADL in Business Dept 8:40am Arr 9:30am
(invalid connection here under MCT)
QF723 ADL-ASP in Business Dept 10:40am Arr 12:50pm
QF1854 ASP-AYQ in Coach Dept 1:50pm Arr 2:45pm
The original 2018 booked itinerary (exact same flights) is published leaving LAX a day before. AA has requested it twice to no avail and the liason for oneworld/QF was involved. I just don't see how QF can leave us with a invalid routing and not want to rebook following a change on their end that I had no control over. I never called once to make any changes. I have not seen a sitaution like this before in over 10+ years of award trips on various airlines/alliances. Whenver there's an involuntary schedule change the airline makes it right. That's why I'm hoping someone still can help me get in touch with some department at QF that can make this right.
Original routing booked in November 2018
QF94 LAX-MEL in First Dept 10:40pm Arr 7:30am +2
QF796 MEL-ASP in Business Dept 9:25am Arr 11:50am
QF1854 ASP-AYQ in Coach Dept 1:50pm Arr 2:45pm
QF796 no longer operates on that day of the week I was scheduled to travel on
New routing that QF interested into the PNR following the schedule change.
QF94 LAX-MEL in First Dept 10:40pm Arr 7:30am +2
QF675 MEL-ADL in Business Dept 8:40am Arr 9:30am
(invalid connection here under MCT)
QF723 ADL-ASP in Business Dept 10:40am Arr 12:50pm
QF1854 ASP-AYQ in Coach Dept 1:50pm Arr 2:45pm
The original 2018 booked itinerary (exact same flights) is published leaving LAX a day before. AA has requested it twice to no avail and the liason for oneworld/QF was involved. I just don't see how QF can leave us with a invalid routing and not want to rebook following a change on their end that I had no control over. I never called once to make any changes. I have not seen a sitaution like this before in over 10+ years of award trips on various airlines/alliances. Whenver there's an involuntary schedule change the airline makes it right. That's why I'm hoping someone still can help me get in touch with some department at QF that can make this right.
Apr 17, 2019, 9:51 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
I’m intrigued by the random days of the week cancellation. ASP has lost a couple of flights but the MEL is supposedly a daily service still
However- ASP remains a pain to get to
if you’re actually spending time in the Alice you might do better asking to be routed via SYD? (Either skipping the MEL stop entirely or possibly adding a MEL-SYD leg)
alternatively if ASP is just a transit and AYQ is your final destination, it may be preferable to take a direct flight there and skip ASP entirely (route through ADL-AYQ is not a daily service and routes from other ports would be JQ metal)
However- ASP remains a pain to get to
if you’re actually spending time in the Alice you might do better asking to be routed via SYD? (Either skipping the MEL stop entirely or possibly adding a MEL-SYD leg)
alternatively if ASP is just a transit and AYQ is your final destination, it may be preferable to take a direct flight there and skip ASP entirely (route through ADL-AYQ is not a daily service and routes from other ports would be JQ metal)
Apr 17, 2019, 10:00 pm
#8
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,589
The QF booking engine validates MCT so the reissued 70 minute connection is apparently within MCT for QF; the MCT is flight specific so there are a dozen different MCT times at MEL for example. I personally have had 60 min connection on QF international to domestic, so your 70 min MCT is plausible. My guess is that QF is not wanting to rebook to different flights as it is showing in the computer as a voluntary change; AA does not have access to QF booking system as they use incompatible system (the joys of Oneworld that is hardly One), hence the confusion. If you have a ticket number for your itinerary, then it is valid and you can travel. Any mis-connect that occurs, QF94 late for example, will be handled by QF expeditiously. My advice it check that you have a ticket number, not just a PNR, and if you do then stop worrying as it is all good. If you don't have a ticket number, then you aren't flying.
Apr 17, 2019, 10:02 pm
#9
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,597
The QF booking engine validates MCT so the reissued 70 minute connection is apparently within MCT for QF; the MCT is flight specific so there are a dozen different MCT times at MEL for example. I personally have had 60 min connection on QF international to domestic, so your 70 min MCT is plausible. My guess is that QF is not wanting to rebook to different flights as it is showing in the computer as a voluntary change; AA does not have access to QF booking system as they use incompatible system (the joys of Oneworld that is hardly One), hence the confusion. If you have a ticket number for your itinerary, then it is valid and you can travel. Any mis-connect that occurs, QF94 late for example, will be handled by QF expeditiously. My advice it check that you have a ticket number, not just a PNR, and if you do then stop worrying as it is all good. If you don't have a ticket number, then you aren't flying.
It also doesnt show as a valid connection when trying to make a booking
Apr 18, 2019, 1:34 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,451
The QF booking engine validates MCT so the reissued 70 minute connection is apparently within MCT for QF; the MCT is flight specific so there are a dozen different MCT times at MEL for example. I personally have had 60 min connection on QF international to domestic, so your 70 min MCT is plausible. My guess is that QF is not wanting to rebook to different flights as it is showing in the computer as a voluntary change; AA does not have access to QF booking system as they use incompatible system (the joys of Oneworld that is hardly One), hence the confusion. If you have a ticket number for your itinerary, then it is valid and you can travel. Any mis-connect that occurs, QF94 late for example, will be handled by QF expeditiously. My advice it check that you have a ticket number, not just a PNR, and if you do then stop worrying as it is all good. If you don't have a ticket number, then you aren't flying.
I tried pricing the new suggested itinerary and not a single travel website or even the Qantas website will allow me to purchase the connection that Qantas is trying force into this PNR, because of this invalid connection.
I sent an email to QF Flyer email that Mwenenzi provided (thank you) and also initiated a Twitter DM, but still trying to find a corporate number/email in Australia or US that I can speak to someone who has more decision power. I'm also thinking of sending an email to US DOT to file a report- otherwise is there an Australian equivalent of an agency that may look into this?
Apr 18, 2019, 2:53 am
#11
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,597
You really need to speak to AA - AA is the agency that owns the booking ; it can try and liaise with Qantas to get a booking
Is there award availability on the next day's flights to AYQ ?
If there is not a new AA ticket number since this change occurred, then you do not have a ticket that will be of any use ; it needs to be reissued
with a 70 minute connection time, it looks like AA is correct in it being invalid; since you booked through AA, it is AA that needs to talk to Qantas since it is the travel agent concerned
It is surprising to me that QF's system would put out an invalid itinerary
Is there award availability on the next day's flights to AYQ ?
If there is not a new AA ticket number since this change occurred, then you do not have a ticket that will be of any use ; it needs to be reissued
with a 70 minute connection time, it looks like AA is correct in it being invalid; since you booked through AA, it is AA that needs to talk to Qantas since it is the travel agent concerned
It is surprising to me that QF's system would put out an invalid itinerary
Apr 18, 2019, 9:01 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,451
You really need to speak to AA - AA is the agency that owns the booking ; it can try and liaise with Qantas to get a booking
Is there award availability on the next day's flights to AYQ ?
If there is not a new AA ticket number since this change occurred, then you do not have a ticket that will be of any use ; it needs to be reissued
with a 70 minute connection time, it looks like AA is correct in it being invalid; since you booked through AA, it is AA that needs to talk to Qantas since it is the travel agent concerned
It is surprising to me that QF's system would put out an invalid itinerary
Is there award availability on the next day's flights to AYQ ?
If there is not a new AA ticket number since this change occurred, then you do not have a ticket that will be of any use ; it needs to be reissued
with a 70 minute connection time, it looks like AA is correct in it being invalid; since you booked through AA, it is AA that needs to talk to Qantas since it is the travel agent concerned
It is surprising to me that QF's system would put out an invalid itinerary
Reached out to AA again- was read notes for entire PNR. They are at QF mercy and QF has shut them down over and over again. The most recent notes read "REGRET, UNABLE TO CONFIRM. HAVE ASKED QF TWICE AND THEY CANNOT CONFIRM XXMAY (DUE TO FULL FLIGHT LOADS)" - these are verbatim from SABRE. The XX date refers to the LAX-MEL leg a day prior which currently shows F9 A9 inventory so this baffles me even more?!
I just cannot believe this is happening. If I was new to this, I might not be surprised, but I have redeemed with AA many times before (CX/BA) and know that this isn't AA's doing as they have always reached out to the operating carrier and secured space due a schedule change the operating carrier caused. Have also had this with various Star redemptions (SQ/TG) and it has always been done right, but unless the operating carrier can actually allow the ticketing carrier to access it's space, there is nothing the ticketing carrier can do short of buying me a new F ticket on Qantas out of pocket (which I'm not asking for, nor is this even an option, but just trying to make a point how AA's hands are tied at this point). My Mother and I have been looking forward to a trip like this for years and just cannot believe this is happening just about a month prior to travel. I don't even know when this schedule change took place. I just don't understand how multiple folks at QF fail to understand this and why they have this invalid "protection" in this first place? Surely, there's someone at QF that would see this and say "Hey this is not right". I'm hoping someone who lurks from QF will perhaps read this and even attempt to make it right.
Apr 18, 2019, 11:32 am
#13
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Location: Denmark
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It seems that this will not be resolved by QF allowing you to travel the day earlier. Then I suggest you show up at the airport and let the check-in agent realise that there has been a schedule change but you have been rebooked to flights undercutting MCT at MEL, and let QF deal with it at the airport. Luckily, all flights are operated by QF so when you check-in at LAX the QF agents need to deal with it. Most likely QF will either liaise with AA to reissue the ticket or take over the ticket and reissue it. A 70 min connection at MEL shouldn't be a problem, so most likely your tickets will be reissued at the airport and you will be allowed to travel on the rebooked itinerary.
Apr 18, 2019, 12:28 pm
#14
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: UA, AS
Posts: 2,393
It seems that this will not be resolved by QF allowing you to travel the day earlier. Then I suggest you show up at the airport and let the check-in agent realise that there has been a schedule change but you have been rebooked to flights undercutting MCT at MEL, and let QF deal with it at the airport. Luckily, all flights are operated by QF so when you check-in at LAX the QF agents need to deal with it. Most likely QF will either liaise with AA to reissue the ticket or take over the ticket and reissue it. A 70 min connection at MEL shouldn't be a problem, so most likely your tickets will be reissued at the airport and you will be allowed to travel on the rebooked itinerary.