When I was a UM this nearly happened to me on AC. Our YXE-YYC DC-9 diverted to YQL we nearly timed out, and the FAs were prepping to have to share their room with me (they mentioned this happened before). Now this *was* 40 years ago or so...

Porter�s utilization of their 42 E2�s remains staggeringly low given the long ASL�s being generated.

On Sunday Oct 6 2024, Porter generated just 7hrs and 23 mins of airborne utilization with an asl of 1,351 miles. Each airframe generated an average of 450,000 asms.

That is the sort of utilization Allegiant used to get with their old MD80 fleet that cost them about $50k a month in lease / finance fees and were basically parked on Tuesdays and Weds.

One doesn�t see many airlines operating high capital cost aircraft with these hyper low utilization rates very often. Unless massive yield premiums are being achieved, it�s pretty hard to make money when aircraft are parked.

With the long asl being generated, they should be generating at least 3hrs 25mins more flight time a day.

What happens when deliveries slow / stop and the sale/leaseback cash flow ends?

And what sort of monthly lease payment are Porter paying that incorporates both the organic cost of the aircraft, ($30.5m) as well as the sort of excess cash they are pocketing after the sale leaseback transaction?

sounds like jimbo737 from airliners.net.

More paid posting on FlyerTalk�..

And in this day and age of ridiculous transparency and whistleblowers everywhere,, who exactly would pay for this post, how much would they pay for it, and for what ultimate purpose?

Why wouldn�t they simply do it themselves?

I have a hard time conjuring up a compelling scenario where an airline, ANY airline, would authorize paying someone $50 / $100 or whatever to post content, be it positive or negative, on chat forums.

Perhaps it�d be more useful to stick to analysis of hard data than dreaming up conspiracy theories?

Meanwhile, back to the data:

Monday Oct 7th��Porter had 7hrs 31 mins avg utilization with an asl of 1,348 miles. An average of 2.6 sectors per each of the 42 tails currently registered.

In 2010, Allegiant ended the year with 49 tails. They ran those tails about 5.5 airborne hours a day, 2.7 departures a day with an ASL of 874 miles.

Allegiant paid a total of $1,721,000 in aircraft lease rentals that year. That�s about 7 months lease payments on one Porter E2.

Allegiant reported a 15.7% operating margin that year.

I wonder Porter�s E2 operating margin is?

Well it is taking them over an hour to turn an E195 in Montreal as we speak. It�s sunny, calm, and not busy. *shrugs*

They had enough slack to make up for a late departure in YYZ this morning. Let�s see the slack they have on the segment to YHZ.

I had my first E2 experience last week on a 4hr transcon from the US to YYZ.

The aircraft was booked to about 35%. 91 seats open.

Thank goodness.

Unless you�re in the premium rows up front, or an exit row, (as was the case on my 1/2 empty YYZ-YOW leg), the seating is very tight and the overall atmosphere is very claustrophobic.

I have pics but not sure if they can be posted.

It would be awful with a full load.

It feels much more like a stretched Q400 than a narrowbody A32x or 737. The landing characteristics feel much more like a CRJ. Those familiar know what I�m talking about.

My full-sized roll on fit comfortably in their gate side sizing device, but would not fit perpendicularly in the overhead bins. This would eat up space on a full flight. Add winter hats, coats and bags and ugh.

The premium snacks were nothing special. Good, but nothing to get excited about.

Free booze for all but most road warriors I know rarely drink when on board. Good for occasional flyers.

The wifi is very good. I could stream content without issue, though the plane had 91 empty seats out of 133. That may have helped.

AC and WS premium is far better than Porter from what I saw. Way more space.

All in all, I�m not exactly sure what the hype is all about. I�d book them on shorter sectors but never on transcons.

Could these ever be a chance of Porter flying YYC - YVR?

They have 42 on property and 38 more to come. One assumes they will open a western base sometime with 75 planes to fill somehow.

Good report. I agree with the sense of claustrophobia but the seats themselves are slightly more accommodating than what you find on Rouge economy. I judge an airline from the seat outward. After seat comfort comes room in the overhead and WiFi. Far down the list are cocktails and snacks. I'm not about to prefer one airline over another because of the nuts they serve.

My two flights from Toronto to Florida were close to full and everything seemed to be reasonably well managed and I don't recall an issue with overheard bags. What was more attractive about the flights was the price which was significantly lower than what Air Canada was charging for Rouge flights to the same destination at the time. I was flying economy and a quick glance at the "premium seats" confirmed I would never pay more for one.

For me Porter falls between Rouge and Air Canada or WestJet mainline. If by "enjoy economy" they mean less suffering than Rouge then I'd agree with their ads. I'm not sure however I'd enjoy a transcon on Porter and would much prefer a mainline flight to my destination from Air Canada or WestJet.

They seem to be able to handle bags reasonably well. Full flights on Friday and there was surprisingly little shuffling around of bags. Add winter coats and I can see it, but I haven�t been in any narrow body Y aircraft that can handle that elegantly unless there is gatecheck.

I am 5ft9 so find the legroom generally fine except in one row upfront (8AB?) which were stupid tight.

I was in row 30 and it was stupid tight for someone 5�11�. I�d never do it again, unless I knew the adjacent seat was open, (which isn�t a practical solution).




Porter�s issue is they don�t have the cost structure to be a discounter and price below AC or WS.

The 132 seat E2 is a high cost airframe, and even moreso after the sale / leaseback transactions that keep the cash rolling in as long as deliveries continue, but take the monthly lease payments pretty close to us$300k.

Porter needs premium fares to make their model work. Selling cheap seats to the sun isn�t going to do it, especially with the anemic utilization, sub 7.6hrs airborne on peak days per tail, that they�ve achieved since day one.

The low utilization generates far too few ASM�s per tail per day, which, in turn limits revenue generation opportunities and keeps unit costs far higher than their competitors.

it�s not a good scenario.

We're the same height and while Porter was tight for me too it was tolerable compared to Rouge.

The last thing Porter should be trying to do is to complete on price with Rouge or any airline / route operating with newer 170+ seat airframes or fully depreciated 130 seat airframes.

The economics are completely apples and orange and a battle Porter cannot win with high cost 132 seat aircraft operating with industry low utilization.

Porter can keep going as long as they keep adding airframes and pocketing the C$8m they are telling Wall St are the proceeds from each of the sale / leaseback financings.

Those funds will underwrite all kinds of
losses for a finite period.

Eventually the deliveries slow down / stop, maintenance holidays end, the cash disappears and the operation has to stand on its own legs.

AC J or PD reserve?
Depends which you're accustomed to.
As someone accustomed to AC J, PD is a bit of a let down.

More space on AC. The routes I fly, more food on AC.
Lounge access with AC.
PD has wifi.

I've done a couple trips on PD now. Never sat past row 4.
On the jet, getting more than one snack doesn't seem possible.
On the DH8, I can get a few snacks.

Chips are no longer offered on the E2.
To bulky. Not enough space on the plane.

Can't get a Caesar on PD.

Menu with pictures from recent Porter flights.
Dish is Piri Piri