Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal
Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal {Archive}
#781
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 21,003
The industry is desperate for cash. From my perspective, DL and AA have an advantage with their programs right now. What if they maintain status quo while UA continues with this new MileagePlus program?
#782
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 25,584
In other, similar programs, they try to obfuscate as much as possible. I presume your card issuer doesn't have a giant scoreboard that says how much money you've given them this year. (How much money they've given you, sure). Especially when you're running a commodity business -- and air travel is a commodity -- you want people focused on perceived value, not the aggregate cost.
There are two reasons to run a loyalty program with membership tiers. The first is that your competition does it. The second is that you're trying to encourage your members to make irrational value judgments -- you want them to value the points / status / etc. enough to pay you more for the same product than they'd pay somebody else.
Your "cash back rebate" program idea fails spectacularly at this. If anything, it allows people to make increasingly rational decisions. If it's all about money for the business, it's all about money for me too.
AA, DL, UA, and WN all give you miles based upon spending. UA's program is only different in terms of status qualification -- and, even then, it's not that different. While you focus on the cash value of upgrade certificates, remember that the vast majority of Premier flyers, on every airline, earn a total of zero such certificates.
There are two reasons to run a loyalty program with membership tiers. The first is that your competition does it. The second is that you're trying to encourage your members to make irrational value judgments -- you want them to value the points / status / etc. enough to pay you more for the same product than they'd pay somebody else.
Your "cash back rebate" program idea fails spectacularly at this. If anything, it allows people to make increasingly rational decisions. If it's all about money for the business, it's all about money for me too.
AA, DL, UA, and WN all give you miles based upon spending. UA's program is only different in terms of status qualification -- and, even then, it's not that different. While you focus on the cash value of upgrade certificates, remember that the vast majority of Premier flyers, on every airline, earn a total of zero such certificates.
#783
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 21,003
In other, similar programs, they try to obfuscate as much as possible. I presume your card issuer doesn't have a giant scoreboard that says how much money you've given them this year. (How much money they've given you, sure). Especially when you're running a commodity business -- and air travel is a commodity -- you want people focused on perceived value, not the aggregate cost.
There are two reasons to run a loyalty program with membership tiers. The first is that your competition does it. The second is that you're trying to encourage your members to make irrational value judgments -- you want them to value the points / status / etc. enough to pay you more for the same product than they'd pay somebody else.
Your "cash back rebate" program idea fails spectacularly at this. If anything, it allows people to make increasingly rational decisions. If it's all about money for the business, it's all about money for me too.
There are two reasons to run a loyalty program with membership tiers. The first is that your competition does it. The second is that you're trying to encourage your members to make irrational value judgments -- you want them to value the points / status / etc. enough to pay you more for the same product than they'd pay somebody else.
Your "cash back rebate" program idea fails spectacularly at this. If anything, it allows people to make increasingly rational decisions. If it's all about money for the business, it's all about money for me too.
Awesome post. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me.
#785
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 21,003
#788



Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 832
The more we talk in circles, restating the same things, with valid points from all sides, the more it reinforces to me that the debate is really this:
Should UA (or any business) pursue the lifetime value of a customer OR the transactional value of a customer? It may be possible to convince people you do both for a while. Eventually this become difficult, especially when the spectrum of customers themselves value different things.
Should UA (or any business) pursue the lifetime value of a customer OR the transactional value of a customer? It may be possible to convince people you do both for a while. Eventually this become difficult, especially when the spectrum of customers themselves value different things.
#789
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 25,584
Yes, it honestly is. The concept of "customer loyalty" is irrational, especially in a commodity business -- a rational consumer will shop by price and/or schedule. The purpose of the MileagePlus program, like its competition, is to get people to spend money with UA when the rational choice would be to fly with a competitor (or stay at home). Otherwise, why bother? If the company isn't getting incremental revenue out of the program, what's the point?
#790




Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM, Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 5,178
There's nothing to suggest this new cap impacts more than a small percentage of non-016 tickets. Can we finally get past calling this as a "huge devaluation"?
#791
Suspended
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago
Programs: ,united 1k, AA EXP, HH Diamond,BA gold, Hyatt globalist
Posts: 974
#792




Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1P-1MM, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 4,142
I'm not sure that I would call it a small percentage of non-016 tickets, but I will say that it may impact a small percentage of UA customers. Personally, it doesn't matter much to me based on my flying patterns (well, historical patterns - we'll see what the future holds) and my 1MM status. I fly 1-2 trips to Europe in Y each year and this is likely a loss of about 300 PQPs (based on my typical flight cost).
#793
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 47,064
I don't disagree - I think the overall number of 1K members planning to requalify with other airline spend was significantly small - as in the hundreds of people, barely a dent in the overall 1K population - so if this is true, then the UA move is made to appear even more petty, and on par with the Baldanza Playbook - zero in on customers you want to alienate, and do something specific to alienate, annoy, harass and drive them away while deriving joy from the process.
#794
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 71,864
This is a meh change to this Europe based flyer. Ive only had to purchase LH tickets for a few short haul flights around Europe where UA wont sell a ticket. While I prefer flying on LH metal TATL, I can do it on a 016 ticket.
#795


Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: YVR
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,008
I created a updated version of the PQP calculator to handle the upcoming per segment PQP earning limits. It also calculates RDM:
https://pqp.economiles.com/
https://pqp.economiles.com/



