50 New cities?
May 18, 2014 | 6:29 pm
#46
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS Atmos Gold; Honors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 4,245
From my non-statistical observations, average fares to Hawaii have more than doubled from 2007-08 recession lows. Based on Gary Kelly's 15% minimum margin requirement, Hawaii appears to be a no brainer, there must be some other reason why he is reluctant to do so.
May 18, 2014 | 7:37 pm
#47
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,838
You were wondering what "destination" meant in the context of "Dallas-based Southwest (NYSE: LUV) will add 15 new domestic destinations from Love Field in October and November but the opportunity exists for many more, he said."
As a courtesy, I supplied you with the definition of "destination" in the context of the quote, along with a list of the specific destinations being referred to.
You responded with "All that's besides the point." No, really, it's not beside the point. It IS the point. If instead of saying, "Still wondering what the definition of 'destination' is", you said "I know what WN is saying, but I wish they would've said non-stop destinations from DAL instead of destinations from DAL." then it would be clear that you're not wondering, you're just complaining.
I'm not assuming a single thing. The 15 new DAL destinations in Oct. and Nov., the time frame that GK was speaking of, were announced a long time ago. I gave you a list because you were "wondering." WN wasn't using this to, as you say in your complaint, "announce they will be offering new non-stop service from DAL to 15 existing destinations."
Additionally, news articles announce new lines on the map as "new destinations from ABC" all of the time, because they are new destinations from ABC!
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
As a courtesy, I supplied you with the definition of "destination" in the context of the quote, along with a list of the specific destinations being referred to.
You responded with "All that's besides the point." No, really, it's not beside the point. It IS the point. If instead of saying, "Still wondering what the definition of 'destination' is", you said "I know what WN is saying, but I wish they would've said non-stop destinations from DAL instead of destinations from DAL." then it would be clear that you're not wondering, you're just complaining.
I'm not assuming a single thing. The 15 new DAL destinations in Oct. and Nov., the time frame that GK was speaking of, were announced a long time ago. I gave you a list because you were "wondering." WN wasn't using this to, as you say in your complaint, "announce they will be offering new non-stop service from DAL to 15 existing destinations."
Additionally, news articles announce new lines on the map as "new destinations from ABC" all of the time, because they are new destinations from ABC!
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
Hell, I don't even know what your point in this thread is other than to defend WN's use of a term that they want to utilize for two completely separate concepts. Or perhaps you just feel like being argumentative. Especially in light of quite a few other posters in this thread also being critical of GK's misleading statements.
Discussing this any further with you is just wasted effort on my part.
Last edited by texashoser; May 18, 2014 at 7:46 pm
May 18, 2014 | 7:55 pm
#48
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,132
Really? Have you tried to book award travel to Hawaii over the past couple of years? From personal experience, the only option for most AA / BA saver awards are on AS metal, as AA seems to have little difficulty filling seats with customers paying CRAZY premiums - same goes for HA (I have limited experience with DL, UA), summer fares from LAX have creeped over $1k RT. Even HA inter-island awards are getting tougher, more expensive, due in part to the recent demise of YV.
From my non-statistical observations, average fares to Hawaii have more than doubled from 2007-08 recession lows. Based on Gary Kelly's 15% minimum margin requirement, Hawaii appears to be a no brainer, there must be some other reason why he is reluctant to do so.
From my non-statistical observations, average fares to Hawaii have more than doubled from 2007-08 recession lows. Based on Gary Kelly's 15% minimum margin requirement, Hawaii appears to be a no brainer, there must be some other reason why he is reluctant to do so.
May 18, 2014 | 9:50 pm
#49
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Rapids Reward
Posts: 40,042
50 New cities?
Can we see future nonstop on the route map?
I have a better idea. Why we don't put on the list for which the specific routes, seasonal flight and etc.
I have a better idea. Why we don't put on the list for which the specific routes, seasonal flight and etc.
May 19, 2014 | 4:05 am
#50
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,132
Last night, my wife and I were talking about WN and how hard it would be to pull off this '50 new destinations' in short order. We both agreed it would be logistically impossible.
'But what about an alliance with another carrier or code-share agreement?' she asked.
WN metal? Absolutely not. But this? Maybe. That might make sense.
But who might they partner with?
'But what about an alliance with another carrier or code-share agreement?' she asked.
WN metal? Absolutely not. But this? Maybe. That might make sense.
But who might they partner with?
May 19, 2014 | 5:33 am
#51
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Last night, my wife and I were talking about WN and how hard it would be to pull off this '50 new destinations' in short order. We both agreed it would be logistically impossible.
'But what about an alliance with another carrier or code-share agreement?' she asked.
WN metal? Absolutely not. But this? Maybe. That might make sense.
But who might they partner with?
'But what about an alliance with another carrier or code-share agreement?' she asked.
WN metal? Absolutely not. But this? Maybe. That might make sense.
But who might they partner with?
May 19, 2014 | 6:23 am
#52
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 751
Last night, my wife and I were talking about WN and how hard it would be to pull off this '50 new destinations' in short order. We both agreed it would be logistically impossible.
'But what about an alliance with another carrier or code-share agreement?' she asked.
WN metal? Absolutely not. But this? Maybe. That might make sense.
But who might they partner with?
'But what about an alliance with another carrier or code-share agreement?' she asked.
WN metal? Absolutely not. But this? Maybe. That might make sense.
But who might they partner with?
GK:
We've got very exciting opportunities over the next several years.
With the repeal of the Wright Amendment we have opportunities to grow, and that's beyond what we've announced thus far.
We are just now inaugurating international flights. North America is our opportunity considering that we fly the Boeing 737, but we have the potential to grow our presence over time by as many as 50 new destinations, and that's compared to 96 that we serve today. Up 24, by the way, in just 3 years time.
With the repeal of the Wright Amendment we have opportunities to grow, and that's beyond what we've announced thus far.
We are just now inaugurating international flights. North America is our opportunity considering that we fly the Boeing 737, but we have the potential to grow our presence over time by as many as 50 new destinations, and that's compared to 96 that we serve today. Up 24, by the way, in just 3 years time.
May 19, 2014 | 10:16 am
#53
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,132
But of course, you want to pick on the 'qualifier'. Is that all you want to do? Pick a fight? Your tone on this board is sad.
My wife and I were just simply having a conversation about where the dots might come from. I'm guessing if they do come it might be through another alliance or acquisition. But IMO, it's not going to come from their own initiative. 50 brand new destinations would require a mind-blowing capital expenditure and a greatly expanded footprint. That's exactly why we've speculated an alliance or acquisition; maybe even more than one.
May 19, 2014 | 11:28 am
#54
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
The growth rate of 24 new destinations in the past 3 years is not on fresh WN metal; they did not initiate even half of these 'new' destinations on their own (I can only think of DCA, which they purchased from AA?). This number is no doubt skewed heavily because of the acquisition of Air Tran which began 3 years ago, as the majority of new dots on the map have come through the purchase; through the taking over of the AT stations.
Only a few changes were for consolidation or other reasons, DFW for example.
May 19, 2014 | 11:40 am
#55
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,838
In fact when the purchase was announced Southwest and Southwest each served 69 cities at acquisition. Airtran and Southwest only served 30 of the same cities for a total of 108 cities and overlapped on only 19 routes.
Only a few changes were for consolidation or other reasons, DFW for example.
Only a few changes were for consolidation or other reasons, DFW for example.
So exactly how many cities did WN add after merging with AirTran? Even if they added a few, they are still down a net 14 since 2011.
May 19, 2014 | 12:14 pm
#56
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Following your math, WN picked up 39 cities as a result of the merger, ie, went from 69 to 108. They are now down to 97 cities (according to WN's website) and will lose three more in early June for a total of 94. That's a loss of 14 cities since 2011. Someone correct me if my numbers are wrong.
So exactly how many cities did WN add after merging with AirTran? Even if they added a few, they are still down a net 14 since 2011.
So exactly how many cities did WN add after merging with AirTran? Even if they added a few, they are still down a net 14 since 2011.
but what's one city more or less. In the mix Southwest and Airtran both made some other changes to their schedules. Southwest is touting former Airtran Flights as New Southwest Non-Stops, and while technically true it's a little deceptive.
May 21, 2014 | 10:43 pm
#57
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN A-list preferred, United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 22,824
[Moderator Hat]
I just moved a few of the more pointed posts to the Peanut Gallery thread. If you want to duel at 20 paces or just watch the carnage, that's the place for it. If I missed any other posts that belong there (I'm in a hurry tonight) just click the Alert a Moderator icon for the post in question.
[/Moderator Hat]
I just moved a few of the more pointed posts to the Peanut Gallery thread. If you want to duel at 20 paces or just watch the carnage, that's the place for it. If I missed any other posts that belong there (I'm in a hurry tonight) just click the Alert a Moderator icon for the post in question.
[/Moderator Hat]
May 23, 2014 | 2:30 pm
#58
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
I don't know what this means exactly. I noticed that the current 50k Credit Card promotions includes this :
As far as I know Southwest currently flies to 93 or 94 different destinations.
Start planning your trip to one of the 85+ destinations Southwest Airlines serves.