Just posted this at a website that is basically a coffee klatch for people to make snarky comments about a Disney website. 4 replies, all of the "I don't see anything wrong" variety.

Needless to say that is one board I will not be frequenting ever again.

The core issue that people do not seem to grasp is that this is the United States of America. We should not have to be subjected to this as citizens. If we allow this, what next? They have already begun appearing at train and subway stations. They are debating rolling out checkpoints at truck stops.

This whole security theater reminds me of someone wanting to go fishing for Maine lobster. There are resources to help you find Maine lobsters, and can help you differentiate between Maine lobsters and other types of lobsters. Should be easy, right? So what do you do? You set traps in the Mississippi River, off Puget Sound, in Lake Erie. You randomly grab any organism (trout, bass, perch, clams, mollusks) out of the water no matter where you are and search it, asking if it is a lobster.

I wonder if sheeple saw that comparison if they would feel the same way.

The pat-down rate or opt-out rate? For the latter, they said in oral arguments in the EPIC suit it was 3%, then corrected in writing to say it was 2%. If we're talking about the actual pat-down rate, there was a long discussion of the 3% number back around the beginning of the year. At that point, my feeling was that my observations at the checkpoint matched that rate. But now it looks to me like it's way below that. I haven't seen a pat-down done at any checkpoint I've been through in the last month and a half. If that's a statistically valid sample, it suggests the rate is now below 2%.

Might not, but I'm pretty sure it matched what's supposed to be done in the SOP and actually got a confirmation of that via a PM from one of the resident TSOs.

My guess is no. We have been dumbed down so far that we don't ever have a chance of coming back up.

This is what I think people feel. "As long as it is the other guy, I really don't care".

Do you think people agonize over all the innocent people in prison wrongfully convicted?

Do you think the people secure in their homes, really care about all the illegal foreclosures happening to other people?

We lost our character as a nation long ago. Maybe our time is up, who knows?

It wasn't one of those who said that gallon-sized bags were usable as Kippies, that the Plexiglas-Boxes-of-Shame were going away, or that the TSA is actually doing anything useful, was it?

Any statement by an employee of the TSA is suspect.

This is just sick.

Message and link sent to my congressman.

Our time as a super-power is up. Per the dynastic cycle definition we are on the decline, and have been for several decades. I feel sorry for my descendants.

Sums it up nicely

And that is one of the reasons why so many here are angry. It was a waste of millions of dollars and manpower (not just in the US) to buy those things. There is corruption behind it too.

The TSA has not released any official figures that I can see. Germany ran a six month test at HAM (voluntary use only) and there have been reports almost weekly about why the scanner is a failure.

1) it does not detect items under folds of skin, or hidden around the body. The ZDF television program featuring Werner Gruber is perhaps the most simple but startling example of this. Here is a Youtube video - click on the red circle to see the English subtitles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idICUSiGcqo Before the scanner came into common usage, there were claims that it wouldn't detect things hidden amongst folds of skin ie under breasts, or under folds of fat. While Mr Gruber is now a large man, and there is a little joke about it in German when they put on their coats, he doesn't in this example even use his body fat to trick the scanner.

2) the scanner creates a 'false positive' because it cannot see through 'folds or pleats' ie layers of clothing. That could be a shirt tucked in, for example

3) the estimate given by German officials is that 75-90% of those scanned during the test phase required a physical check to resolve the issue

This is the 'safer' MMW and not the backscatter machine; change to backscatter and the story gets worse. That was just a quick summary from a government test more open that that in the US, but you can see why there are so many concerns. And we haven't even talked about health or privacy, just that the machine doesn't make us safer.

Also want to point out that there are many reports of the TSA screeners being unable to spot the dangerous items as well...

In my letter autographted by John Pistole himself, his exact words were:

They've also elsewhere said that about 10% of passengers go through a NoS (although this was back before NOOD, after which NoS use seems to have significantly dropped). In addition, they've said that under 1% of pat-downs were non-NoS related. This leaves about 2%, which would mean that the TSA is admitting that 20% of NoS users receive a pat-down anyway. This would be roughly consistent with what I've seen in airports.

--Jon

Here are a few news reports I linked from four months ago about the 'teething pains' of the scanner test in Germany. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...r-germany.html

I have not flown out of HAM in recent years nor have I used the scanner in Europe, but I think (I may be mistaken) that if there is an issue, they only search the questionable area, not do a full pat down as we see in the US.

But even then the amount of time it takes vs a conventional WTMD is one of the major concerns in Germany. Then again, wait times at security at TXL and MUC are usually 0-10 minutes, so anything over that constitutes a concern. In the US at major international airports I have often waited 30-45 minutes or even more.

If we assume that both sets of reports are accurate, I wonder why the US figure is 20% and the German estimate is low end 75%? Could it be also that in the US I often see people being ordered to remove every single thing such as rings, tissues, paper from pockets and maybe in Germany they do not do so? Could it be the clothing being worn ie American travellers seem to have been conditioned to wear simple clothing and as little as possible to make screening 'easier', while German travellers still tend to wear business attire and/or layers? Or could it be that at least one of these figures is either being under or over estimated?

Now this I don't understand; for years I read the Disney crowd panicking if they were not seated next to their children on the plane. One of the most common reasons that they cited was because of child molestors being on a plane. That argument never made much sense to me; yes, there have been a few cases including a few reported here, but the chances seem low to me especially considering that there is no escape route for the molestor.

Yet that same audience seems to be very willing to allow their children to experience this because it makes them 'feel safe'.

I don't know if one can fight the emotion with logic with this group, unfortunately. (And I don't mean to group all of them together, but it seems to be a common trend amongst youngish parents today on the internet who may not remember life before about 1990)

Or it could be that TSA screeners viewing the images are missing the additional 55% that should be receiving a patdown - such as when the undercover operative smuggled five guns thru the DFW checkpoint recently.

Let's try to take the raw parenting emotion out of this conversation, ok? It's clear that many people are not having a visceral reaction to the video.

For the past 9 years, the technology and methodology to create a non-metallic bomb and smuggle it through security have existed. They are not new. There is no reason to believe that the risk of such a thing is greater this year than last year.

In that time, 2 out of 7 billion people have attempted to do such a thing.

There are hundreds of aviation risks greater than 1:3.5 billion.

Therefore, AIT and pat-downs are a waste of time and money. Collectively, millions of dollars of your money. And thousands of hours of your time.

Also, because they are distracting resources from higher priority risks, they are making you less safe.

Be upset about that.

I agree with you here.
I don't quite agree here though; I think that the parents' reactions are important to gauge if this could be a way to finally raise enough anger amongst the sort of leisure travel I noted a few posts above, who think that airport security and especially the scanners are keeping them safe.

Look at Jane's reaction as a good example; she thought that she had options and is now questioning that. If we can get through to a few thousand more Janes who initially feel disgust and then start questioning things, we have been successful.