I will admit that I do have a great deal of flexibility in scheduling my flights. Because of that, as I mentioned earlier, my partner and I have probably used 100+ SWUs successfully on long-haul international flights in the last 5 years, without ever having to fly in the back on AA metal. And the great thing is that if I run out, my friends who don't fly a lot of international can gift me a few, so I never need to use miles+copay! Also, AA has NO published fares which you cannot upgrade.

I feel your pain. I'm 6'3" and hate economy. I even find the old WBC seats on DL to be very uncomfortable. Most of my UGs don't clear at booking. I can rarely book more than 2 or 3 weeks out which means I can't get Z so I'm looking at tickets that are $6k to $8k RT. For 10 RTs per year that works out to an extra $60k to avoid one or two flights in Y over the course of the year. Hard for me to justify. Before I left DL, I was buying 4 Y seats in the middle, which I could often get for less than $3k RT. Another approach is just to buy a new biz class ticket at the gate if it looks like you're not going to clear on the UG.

I have found Delta usually releases Z seats in a trickle starting about 1 month or so before a flight as they get a better handle on how many Biz seats they are going to sell, where AA and UA release a batch of upgrades, then almost nothing until departure. I usually need to finagle which hub I go through in order to get the Z availability, but I can usually find it.

The lower fare levels with co-pay on cheap tickets is a double edge sword as it allows people on low fare tickets to suck up the advance upgrade availability.

C'est la vie. I have yet to find an airline that has all I want.

I don't think that phone agent knew more than you or I about the intentions of Delta on this front. I'm still hoping DL will have a change of heart. This is a pretty big issue and although I'm a loyal Delta flier and generally am very happy with their service, this is one area in which they totally drop the ball, I have even found instances when the J fare is lower than the M fare!

I may look for other pastures if they don't change this by the end of the year.

Not gonna happen; you read it here first. Name one SkyMiles enhancement in the last few years that has been a significant net positive.

If/when DL comes through with u/g on award tix and AS flights, I would call both or either a significant net positive.

I agree that the SWUs need to be improved. Maybe not LUTs, but rather something along the lines of 2 SWUs useable for one-way u/gs on international HQKs. Just thinking out loud. Even if a DM chose the maximum SWU choices and exhausted their full SWU arsenal, we are still only talking about upgrading two and a half round trips while ensuring they don't buy in the bottom three fare classes for those flights. Maybe some cost for DL, but I suspect it would also buy an even greater amount of loyalty and provide a carrot for many fliers currently using a number of carriers to concentrate their travel on DL to reach for PM or DM.

Actually, I think the UA system is pretty fair. They release some seats that anybody can grab at booking. So this gives a chance to flyers with low status. After that you get priority based on status (GS, 1k, 1P) and fare basis. I'm actually hoping that the co-pay will help because a lot of people will now buy cheaper fares which will push them down the priority list.

I usually fly out of NRT and there is a 28 day advance purchase requirement on Z fares which doesn't work for me. It used to be the other way around and possible to get biz originating out of NRT at about half the price of the same ticket originating in North America.

From the peanut gallery, this is hilarious! nypdLieu and hgly going to the rescue of DL! Trying to show that their M fares are "comparable" to other airlines' upgradable fares after copay....
Anybody can tweak numbers and find counter example. The sad (actually, it is funny) thing is, none of them are convincing. In the best of case, DL comes in at the same price but it's the exception....
Who cares about the exception? The rule is: DL YBM fare are outrageously expensive and there is no getting around it. It's what made me leave DL.

And my experience with AA SWUs have been great! Not a single one missed, not a waitlist that has not come through! And no need to take a chance. I pay the lowest fare and in the worst case I go in Y for less than $1000. A DL M fare? So far, no one has found one under $2000 and who'd want to gamble $1000 extra when the chances of upgrades are so low.... It's mathematically unjustifiable. Just save the $1000 5 times and you can afford a paid full J ticket! Now, that's mathematically reasonable!

But I will keep throwing peanut shells to the actors! (I do eat the warm nuts AA serves me in J and F )

+1

Wouldn't that be nice? Oh wait -- NW had upgrades on award tickets, upgrades on AS flights, and true SWUs on any fare class. Too bad DL decided to keep the worst of NW, not the best.

DFP, I have abundantly shown what my requirements are regarding advance purchase, etc. and there is no way that UA or AA beat it, I have said that if you are purchasing your tickets 8 months in advance and have tonnes of flexibility that those programs are probably for you.

Anyone can "fix" something to show their viewpoint. Where are you originating flights from? A UA hub? A DL hub? A podunk city that UA doesn't have many flights too?

Pick 5 cities, say 3 major ones, and two medium markets. Check pricing 9 months, 6 months, 3 months and 1 month in advance. Provide the results.

I have no idea if UA is cheaper or not. The friends I know who do use UA SWUs seem to be pretty happy. Often they have more than they can use.

When compared to the people on this forum, where most people are not happy with the DL PMUs, it shows pretty clearly which one people actually like.

I got a total of 6 NW SWUs, over two years, and they were a breeze to use. Not the easiest to earn, but made travel such much better on long routes.

Uhhh, had you read my criteria you would know that the parameters that you just made do NOT apply to me. Yes, for those who travel once or twice a year and have many months and flexibility then AA or UA are probably better. Speaking about "fixing"other posters have bleated on about $4k M fares, but no one else has seemed to find them using THEIR parameters.

But you are taking a chance, as you might not get upgraded at the gate on one of these trips.

I understand that for you the financial gain is worth the risk. For me it is not worth the risk. I will not book an upgradable long haul ticket on any airline without confirmation of the upgrade at the time of ticketing. From my vantage point, there is generally no benefit to booking on AA with SWUs.

What chance? In the last 6 years I have been upgraded at the gate on an international flight only once. The next closest shave was a day before departure. There are a couple of instances where I recall being upgraded 3-4 days before departure. The rest of the time, at booking or weeks before departure. This is based on a sample of perhaps 60 flights (all long-haul international), covering every international destination that AA flies to.

And as an EXP, when all else fails, I've never been turned down on an appeal to revenue management to release a seat for me (assuming there are revenue seats available, of course). When was the last time that any DL flyer was able to get RM to make an exception?