It seems odd to me that the GAs in LHR don't know how to process a "ticketing" function like an upgrade that requires tax to be paid. This can't be a once in a blue moon phenomenon. I'm surprised that the gate supervisors don't know how to do it or that the gate agents can't just call some support person and have them do it remotely. It also shouldn't matter that this isn't a "typical" European function... it is American Airlines after all, and the point of having a brand is to standardize the product and experience no matter where you are.

But AA aren't able to standardise the tax regimes and that's the root of the problem here.

With separate tickets, UK APD is always due. It is a condition for treating the connection as a connection for APD purposes that both flights be on the same ticket. It is not like the US domestic tax where domestic tax is not due if connecting to/from an intl flight even on separate tickets as long as the tickets are cross-referenced.

As the OP's flight was on one ticket, then nope, he shouldn't have had to pay the ex-UK departure tax. Avoiding that tax is exactly why some FTers that have the time to do so buy an el cheapo, separate ticket across the channel & then on one ticket go from there, thru LHR, to the US or wherever....as sometimes, that el cheapo flight is a LOT less than what the APD would be on an upgraded ex-LHR flight.

If the GA is saying he/she has to collect it, then that's an error on the GA's part. Whether or not the GA SHOULD have the hardware/software to collect it is another story. It can be done via ticket counter & lounge personnel, and I'm guessing that's likely the response that a GA who would know that would say. That's possibly what AA will say as well.

Some of the really good AA GA's that post on this board would likely say they've got enough to handle as it is getting flights out, and in fairness to them, I'd say that---having flown ex-LHR many times this year---the boarding area is usually quite a zoo (not the GA's fault, just the plethora of demanding pax crowding around).

Yep, a quick check back w/ the Flagship Lounge MIGHT have helped, and/or so could a call to the EXP desk (and those agents in Dublin are always quite helpful), but hindsight's always 20/20.

It will be interesting to hear what AA's resopnse is. There are threads here about the inconsistency of ground staff at Heathrow, and perhaps this is yet another example of that, needing AA's attention. Or, perhaps it's just an honest mistake by the GA in the middle of a boarding process.

I've read reports here of people doing just that- getting AA to have the one ticket "reference" the other (which, I believe, is close to the actual wording of the tax document) and have avoided the taxes. This is far from standard, but more than a few have reported it.

(I don't have time at present to find it, but I believe that these are in the main APD thread here on AA.)

Cheers.

Thanks. Single ticketed PNR is indeed what I thought was required but some mention of getting around it on separately ticketed PNRs had me wondering how the mechanics of getting around that requirement worked for the handful who report getting around it.

Cross-referencing would be enough for the purpose of avoiding internal US tax on a US domestic ticket following or preceding an intl ticket but HMRC are rather more demanding with respect to APD: in addition to the cross-referencing, the tickets would have to be conjunction tickets, viz. tickets which are part of a single contract of carriage.

If both tickets are issued by AA and there are still coupons left on both tickets, AA could conceivably conjoin the tickets but this would have consequences on the contractual entitlements of the pax (notably shifting the risk of misconnect from the pax to the airline). If one of the tickets is not issued by AA, AA would not be able to conjoin the tickets. If both tickets were issued by AA but all the coupons on one of the tickets were already flown, it would probably technically constitute fraud, or at least tax evasion, to conjoin the tickets ex-post facto for the purpose of avoiding APD, although I doubt that HMRC would be that bothered unless it was a routine and systematic practice.

This does not mean that I do not believe that this has happened. I can quite believe that an AA ticketing agent familiar with US aviation tax rules but less familiar with UK APD might assume that cross-referencing would be enough to avoid APD.

You suspect? Unless they've fixed their time machine, there's definitely nothing AA can do at this point with respect to your getting that upgrade on that flight.

Short-term, I think the best you can hope for from AA is an apology and the knowledge that you're one more person that has brought this issue to their attention. Perhaps separate from AA customer service, you should figure out on your own what the best way to secure upgrades is in the future. I think that this has more or less already been covered here in this thread. The one thing that's missing is the viability of what is perhaps the final option: you get to the gate, there are seats available that weren't available before, but the agent says they can't or won't process the fees. Is it practical to call the EXP desk at that point and have that taken care of, so all the GA has to do is reprint the boarding pass?

Long-term, AA should come up with a way to deal with this better. What CO has done is that at the time you get added to the waitlist for an upgrade, they withdraw the miles and charge your credit card for the co-pay and in the event of London, the extra tax. So, 100% of CO customers in your situation already have all of the ticketing issues resolved before they get to the gate, allowing the GA to fill every available premium seat with an upgrade. If your upgrade doesn't clear, then the upgrade co-pay and extra tax get automatically refunded to your credit card and the miles automatically redeposited without a redeposit or refund service charge.

I know there are training issues and IT issues that make it something that's not very easy for AA to solve. But I would have to think that the lost opportunity in collecting the upgrade co-pays alone would add up to quite a bit on an annual basis, more than enough to pay for the work that needs to be done. And that's ignoring the customer satisfaction issues.

It's kind of funny to read about CO having a better upgrade system than AA. Usually the other way around...

Agreed that it seems AA is leaving a fair amount of money on the table (copays) while ticking off its EXPs at the same time.

Question: is the luxury tax collected when passengers are just transiting through LHR from somewhere else (i.e. MAD-LHR-JFK traveling in F)? If not, how long can one stop over at LHR before the tax will be collected? 24 hours?

Well, this is certainly one of the best descriptions of all of this I have seen, and it's really hard to doubt any of this, much as I'd like to given that we have booked AA paid tickets (upgraded) and then BA awards (through AA) that are on separate records.

However, with reference to the code itself

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...ent#P227_12578

Section 4.4 indicates that the tax can be avoided if:

* each refers to the other and states that they are to be read in conjunction, or
* there is a summary of the flights constituting the passengers journey including the flights in question.

in the case of separate booklets. So, if AA can either properly state this, or provide a combined summary, it seems that the higher rate of APD would not be due.

Cheers.

As a general rule, yes: 24 hours as long as:
a) your origin is outside the UK (i.e. MAD-LHR-JFK is OK, but EDI-LHR-JFK would not work) and
b) the origin is in a different country from the destination: an ORD-LHR-JFK mileage run would attract APD on the LHR-JFK segment even if there is less than 24 hours between the two flights.

I've done exactly this after reading it here a while ago on the APD thread and the tax was waived. The flights were on two different PNRs, one getting into LHR with BA on an award, and the second (a day later), departing on AA upgraded with evip to DFW. I called in advance to AA and asked them to add in each of the PNR the other PNR details.

This is also covered in the wiki, which provides a link to the official HM Revenue & Customs APD notice.

http://www.flyerguide.com/wiki/index...rades_%28AA%29

Yes, but what does that do? It changes the contract of transportation from two separate ones into a single one, as suggested above: there is now a single journey from origin to end.