"Flygskam" (Flying Shame) ???
Apr 16, 2019, 10:09 am
#16
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CPH
Posts: 18
With the political and now apparently social hostility towards aviation that has appeared in Sweden over the past year or two, I was wondering whether SAS might be motivated to further reduce long-haul flights at ARN and serve more appreciative markets instead. Probably wishful thinking though.
Apr 16, 2019, 10:19 am
#17
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Programs: Various
Posts: 3,369
With the political and now apparently social hostility towards aviation that has appeared in Sweden over the past year or two, I was wondering whether SAS might be motivated to further reduce long-haul flights at ARN and serve more appreciative markets instead. Probably wishful thinking though.
I'd say more people are suffering from the terrible exchange rate. The reason for that one is pure OMNI/PR and I won't go there...
Apr 16, 2019, 11:33 am
#18
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
much ado about nothing.
Apr 16, 2019, 11:41 am
#19
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The SEK/USD rate is still not as favorable to the dollar as it was at times around two decades ago.
In public, unless alcohol is involved to excess, Swedes tend to be reserved and do anything but run around in circles screaming and shouting (with maybe Midsummer festivities being amongst the notable exceptions). The screaming and shouting while running around in cirlces in public is for the “Fox News” crowd and its lovers and way more American than Swedish. 
Apr 16, 2019, 11:55 am
#20
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: *G, used to be with TK but left due to their corruption and political ties
Posts: 4,406
Apr 16, 2019, 11:59 am
#21
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BNA (Nashville)
Programs: HH Diamond
Posts: 6,227
According to the article, SAS responded to a drop in passenger growth, in part, by replacing MD80s with more fuel efficient planes.
So, its almost as if market forces can made SAS change behavior. Capitalism and the invisible hand at work!
So, its almost as if market forces can made SAS change behavior. Capitalism and the invisible hand at work!
Apr 16, 2019, 12:36 pm
#22
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
The MD80s were phased out at least three years ago, might be even 5. And not because of ecological reasons but of commercial ones .
Last edited by fassy; Apr 16, 2019 at 1:06 pm
Apr 16, 2019, 1:04 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BNA (Nashville)
Programs: HH Diamond
Posts: 6,227
Then it wouldn’t be a rumour and far less exiting. He is chairmen of two limited companies. How they make money? No idea, maybe by selling media stuff like they claim, maybe with Emission certificates like people I know claim. I also run my own AB and with the money in the bank my company (which means me) invests into different markets which have nothing to do with the primary source of income (aka my consulting business)
The MD80s were phased out at least three years ago, might be even 5. And it because of ecological reasons but of commercial ones .
Commercial reasons and ecological reasons have a tendency to intertwine.
Apr 16, 2019, 2:04 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
There are lots of times where taking SJ is more practical, financially or otherwise, than flying. Flying CPH/MMX-ARN or taking the train between these areas is pretty much a wash for me. Sometimes one works better for me than the other, and at other times it’s the other that works better for me.
Apr 16, 2019, 2:32 pm
#26
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I think you are misunderstanding. The idea with moralism is that you're supposed to have double standards: tell others what to do, but don't follow that yourself.Also, Nextjet went bankrupt last year, presumably reducing competition on some routes. If trains are cheaper, fewer will fly.On that route, I've found that SJ's night train is a very convenient option.And then people stay in Sweden to save money, meaning that a higher proportion of people travel by train instead of flying.
I haven’t systematically checked the actual data on the overall fare picture, but I have noticed accessed accounts are paying more for train and airfare in more recent months than was the case during comparable periods 12-months prior.
SJ longer-haul trains definitely feel more full as of late than 12 months prior. I would say that it is possible that the stronger demand for train travel is less a product of environmental concerns than that the people who are more likely to want or need to travel by train regionally have more means to do so than before, while people who were flying more have been subject to greater concerns about personal wealth in housing stock not increasing like before.
Top end housing stock around Stockholm and Gothenburg and just outside south Malmo have been facing a buyer’s market more these past twelve months than during the year or two prior. And my bet is that the vast majority of scheduled passenger air service in Sweden involves trips that begin or end at GOT, ARN, and CPH or relatively nearby airports to those airports.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 16, 2019 at 2:38 pm
Apr 16, 2019, 2:39 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
I working on a project split between Gothenburg, Malmö and Copenhagen 3 years ago. As I was stationed in Kista but practical living in a hotel in Gothenburg I spend a lot of time on the plane or train to Malmö and Copenhagen. Often enough I couldn’t book the train I wanted to be on... no seats available, not even on first class... and had to take the one earlier or later... (not like in Germany where they sell high speed ICE train tickets without a seat and rather have people stand in the aisle for 4 hours). The west coast trains where quite booked up all the time even then (2015-2016).
At least to CPH flying was more often the better choice.
At least to CPH flying was more often the better choice.
Last edited by fassy; Apr 16, 2019 at 2:51 pm
Apr 16, 2019, 3:51 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Programs: Various
Posts: 3,369
Hearing this makes lots of middle class Swedes angry because of course there's no bubble. Prices will always go up more than inflation. Personally I see both the (previous) price movements and the attitudes as proof of the bubble. But this is veering into OMNI/PR and I said I shouldn't(but couldn't stop myself)...
Apr 16, 2019, 4:26 pm
#29
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fassy, I sometimes find that SJ first class can be available at a lower price than SJ economy class. [I doubt that it's due to any general public aversion to taking the train in first class. 
] But indeed trains have been selling out over the years; and at times that means trains may be a worse option for me than flying.
Maybe it's not part of the Riksbank mandate, but for many a country's central bank -- including for the USFRS -- postponing or holding back on the intensity of rate hikes may be part of the central banks' job when an asset bubble has burst or is about to burst.
I would say there may still be a property bubble to burst in the 6-10 highest income city/county areas of Sweden, but that in most of the rest of the country there are some very cheap house buying options and there hasn't been a bubble (at least not in quite some time). But the cheap home areas don't really offer access to many well-paying jobs and they often have other hassles involved -- including lack of easy and frequent SJ rail service access and poor international flight connectivity -- and thus are cheap for housing (but not necessarily for everything else). Sweden definitely doesn't feel like any more a broken country than the US, and in the US too housing prices and the "bubble-ness" of a housing market can vary a lot by location. Of course people who feel as if their assets and income aren't subject to rising as fast as they may like or have wanted may substitute away from more expensive discretionary expenses and into less expensive purchases while trying to package their purchase choices into some kind of "do good" gift wrap or to try to point the finger of blame at some scapegoats, but it doesn't mean that place is actually broken to any extraordinary extent. The increase in domestic Swedish rail traffic isn't a sign of an almost broken country. Nor is a relative decline in domestic flight traffic the sign of an almost broken country.
] But indeed trains have been selling out over the years; and at times that means trains may be a worse option for me than flying.
Originally Posted by Fredrik74
Hearing this makes lots of middle class Swedes angry because of course there's no bubble.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 16, 2019 at 4:35 pm
Apr 16, 2019, 5:32 pm
#30
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
I've seen that too. I see two reasons for that. First, some employers require their employees to travel in second class, and it can be easier to book an expensive second class ticket than to seek permission for first class travel if it is cheaper than second class. Secondly, SJ allows adults to bring up to two children under 16 years old for free or almost for free in second class, but in first class you become an adult the day you turn two years old, so it can be cheaper to travel in second class if you bring children even if it is cheaper to travel in first class if you travel alone. Also, children under the age of 26 get a discount in second class but not in first class.