A350 / A330X route discussion thread [split off from A350 launch thread]
 

CUN has been a non-stop charter destination from ARN for a few years now.

On that topic, it sure would be nice to see a SAS range map centered on ARN...

Agreed, the CPH focus specifically for longhaul is starting to bother me more and more. They should live up to the Scandinavian Airlines principle and not the Danish Airlines ones.

"Danish Airlines"? SK serves a large part of southern Sweden from CPH. Get over it, except for LH, no European legacy carrier has had success with a dual hub set-up. For passengers transiting from Europe, CPH offers the most convenient location.

By that reasoning SK should abandon their ARN-EWR and ARN-ORD routes.

I believe that the IT and biotech connection between Stockholm and the SF Bay Area is compelling enough to warrant a direct ARN-SFO connection. People flying between those two points today are forced to connect somewhere anyway, so SAS is competing directly against rivals with cheaper fares and in most cases more modern IFE systems. SK can't make money undercutting the competition in price, and it will be a while before they can promise equally comfortable or entertaining hardware, but the possibility of a direct flight instead of a connection would make SK a more compelling choice.

Besides, SK has already invested in a presence at SFO so it would make sense to use those resources for more than just one flight daily.

Let's see... if we assume one daily flight, that means 89,425 pax annually. Assume half of these originate in ARN, gives us 44,712. Population of Stockholm 871,952. This means that more than 1 in 20 stockholmare will be flying to SFO.... with SK.... every year! Not gonna happen, no matter how widely you draw the radius around ARN.

With SFO being a major hub of big brother UA, I imagine that SK's investment there is minimal.

Just for reference, it would not need to be a daily flight and the numbers would not be quite as bad as you are making them:

Stockholm County: 2,084,526
Uppsala County: 336,533
Södermanland County: 270,981
Västmanland County: 252,819

SFO is just one example of a new route from ARN that might make sense. Having ground staff and flight crews there to serve the needs of a total of 10 optimally scheduled flights a week including both CPH and ARN would likely be both a more efficient use of resources and provide a higher level of backup for staffing than handling the current 6 flights a week from CPH alone.

The same case could perhaps be made for other destinations currently served by CPH alone. ARN is closer than CPH to everything on the west coast of North America and everything in Asia, so there is also the potential for considerably time and fuel savings for anybody living closer to ARN than CPH (Most of the Baltic region), not just those 871,952 living in Stockholm.

What I am suggesting is that SK retain proven routes from CPH and consider testing targeted expansion of capacity from ARN as additional long-haul aircraft become available. Nothing more threatening or controversial than that.

Fully agree with Daner! ARN-SFO is really slowly becoming a must, or at the very least ARN-West Coast. And it doesn't have to be daily, they could fly SFO from ARN 4x a week and use the plane for another location from ARN for another 2 or 3 days a week.

Well first off, I do ARN-SFO 10 times a year, so that relieves 9 other Stockholmers from making the trip. We easily have 15 other people in our office alone that do the same so that relieves another 135, aside from the less frequent travellers and tons of other companies. I do make the trip on BA or LH as long as SAS forces a transfer in CPH. In that case I will not opt for reduced travel time but for increased service, comfort and better experience.

Just one example of many, SAS not offering long-haul from ARN to any of it's Asian destinations is another concern.

That doesn't make sense, they fly to EWR and ORD from multiple Scandinavian locations with a number of flights because those are specifically UA/Star Alliance hubs. UA doesn't serve any Scandinavian location from SFO, the closest would be FRA or LHR.

Been there done that. ARN-PEK and ARN-BKK were tested - and did not survive.

Other European carriers operating a two hub set-up: LH, AB, AF/KL - all three in quite a different league than SK. Alitalia tried the two hub - and did not suceed. SK does not have the critical mass to do it.

So it's not a must then - if even people such as yourself will choose SAS only if it's a non-stop, then that rather proves that the idea has no wings.

I do hope the CPH-SFO service survives, but allegedly CPH-LAX never made a profit - even in the golden age of air travel.

That's precisely why it makes sense - because they are flying into UA hubs they can piggyback on UA's ground services and operate with a minimal number of their own staff. They don't even have their own lounge at SFO. Therefore, there is not the kind of pre-existing SK operation at SFO that would in itself be likely to significantly reduce the marginal cost of starting up a second service.

Do not forget OSL. The Norwegian media have made a point of SK having their announcement/signing at OSL, and not at the main IC-hub of CPH, nor at their headquarters at ARN.

According to SK literature SK designates OSL as the third hub. True: probably less O/D than ARN or CPH, but a significant market from connections from other domestic destinations, a market which used to be staunchly SK, but which is much less loyal after the expansion of DY. If you already have to connect at OSL, you are less likely to want a second connection at CPH.

And OSL is closer to all NA destinations than either ARN and CPH. I hope that the new planes mean that SK will offer more direct flights from OSL

Would it practically be possible to do CPH-SFO-ARN-SFO-CPH-SFO-ARN serving both cities?

I was wondering whether that could be an option for an operation of SK's size, for this or any long-haul route. Then I realised the obvious answer that was staring me in the face - that the run CPH-SFO-CPH takes more than 24 hours, meaning you need to have a complex circulation involving multiple aircraft. I guess it might work for destinations like ORD though.

Direct service to SIN from CPH
 

Hi,

I heard SAS is starting the service to Singapore from CPH soon, anyone can confirm this?

I have not heard anything specific.

It has been discussed here on FT at a point that Singapore has been on the destination map in Scannorama as an SAS destination as opposed to a codeshare destination the last couple of months. SAS has a codeshare agreement with SQ on their flights (SK8001/8002). There has been talks about expanding the cooperation with more departures directly between Singapore and Scandinavia, but nothing tangible has been officially communicated.

Starting from 2015 (I guess summer timetable), SK has announced that with new planes coming in, they are looking at additional routes. But again nothing tangible have been announced.

I would doubt this very much - there is a fairly strong code agreement in place (also beyond SIN). Also SK would in any aspect (except maybe for points earning) offer an inferior product to SQ (frequency, price, seats, IFE, on-board service, bagage allowance, etc.).

Yes they have new planes comming in as of next year. But i would certainly hope they consolidate their IC routes in one hub (= more destinations) rather than spreading it thin. Unfortuantely rumors goes in the opposite direction.