Moving to SFO
 

Hey everyone...my job search has finally come to a close, and I'm moving to San Francisco.

I know I've seen a thread like this before, but I can't find it (if you can and could link me that would be great!). I need to figure out where in the city to live. I'm going to be working south of the city (about 45mins to an hour), but lets not worry about that. I'm looking for a vibrant fun neighborhood, with good public transport, and a very local, indepdent, non name-brand scene. I'm willing to pay up to about $1000/mo for rent (and will probably be looking for a place with 3-5 bedrooms with some friends...so between $3k&$5k). I'd appreciate any recommendations that you guys have. Thanks!

-W

At the prices listed, Gilroy, perhaps? (It does have CalTrain service to San Jose and up to The City....)

Since you'll be commuting south, I would recommend something in the southern districts of the City. (assuming you're limiting yourself to SF proper, not other communities on the Peninsula)

The Mission comes immediately to mind. Close to the freeways, great public transport, alterno-hipster + vibrant immigrant scene. Since you're willing to share a place, you should be able to find something in that price range.

Potrero Hill, SOMA, Noe Valley, Glen Park could be other alternatives.

Let us know more about what you're looking.

Seriously - I think it would make a lot more sense to commute 45 minutes to SF when you want to go to the city than to commute 45 minutes each way, each and every day. Assuming five days a week, that's a minimum of 7.5 hours each week, so maybe 375 hours a year? There are some smaller vibrant communities in the south bay that are enjoyable to live in, have lower crime rates than SF, probably cost less, and put you closer to the bay area's largest city... which hasn't been SF for a long time ;)

I might suggest downtown Mountain View. It has both Caltrain and Light Rail service as well as a number of express busses in various directions. There are lots of restaraunts and bars popping up, and it is a growing economic center in silicon valley. Ever heard of these newfangled companies like Google? That's Mountain View. You would be near jogging / biking parks such as the bay wetlands trail and concert venues such as shoreline amphitheatre and the relatively new Mountain View CPA.

I ended up choosing downtown Los Gatos. Not such a transit center - but my job precludes me from taking mass transit. Couldn't get to many customers via rail or bus in a day.... I enjoy a reverse commute to south San Jose, I am 30 seconds from the los gatos creek trail, on which I can bike to lexington resorvior or as far as willow glen in the opposite direction. I am near a multitude of great restaraunts, the post office, hardware store, dmv, AAA, grocery stores, library, police department, town hall - I don't drive once I get home. It's not like living in the "big city" - it's more like living in a community. It depends on what level of anonymity or interaction with your neighbors you desire, I suppose. There is a free shuttle that takes you around the town or to light rail, and (this is FT after all!) I'm a straight shot down 880 to SJC. Takes me a hair over 10 minutes :)

And for our reference, what do you mean by 45 minutes? If you mean commuting to Santa Clara, that might be 45 minutes in clear traffic but a lot more if you drive during commute hours or have to deal with pokey CalTrain.


Let us know more specifically about what is important to you. That makes a big difference. Are you a party animal? Are you looking to follow the "in" crowd? These seem to be the only reasons I could think of that SF might be a desirable destination for someone working in the south bay.

Perhaps another reason could be the choice between living in a vibrant urban environment, or what might be called a vibrant suburban environment. San Jose is geographically large and has lots of residents, but it was zoned as a massive suburb. Recent efforts to densify downtown San Jose aside, there's only one big city--a big urban center, such as it is--in the Bay Area, and that's San Francisco. Heck, even plenty of San Francisco neighborhoods don't leave one with a sense of living in the city. (as people say of Oakland, where I live--Oakland got the Port, and San Francisco got the city. On the plus side, we have a great view of SF).

Mountain View, Palo Alto, Los Gatos, and plenty of other South Bay areas can be quite pleasant, especially weather-wise, but in my experience, require one to enjoy plenty of quality time in one's car to be fully appreciated.

-Hayden

I don't think I would put Palo Alto or Los Gatos in the OP's price range either. Some parts of Mountain View, maybe, but not the part within walking distance of the Caltrain stop.

In SF, that is a tight budget. 5BR places in SF -- strikes me as pretty hard to find in any case.

Maybe we need a "San Francisco reality tour" for people planning to move here and find a nice place with cheap rent, although I guess a good Craigslist perusal will probably solve the problem.

He's valuating each bedroom at $1000 (3 bedrooms = $3k per month in rent), which I think is on the low end of things for SF, but still doable if he's willing to look in the Richmond, Sunset, Mission, Hayes Valley, NOPA, and Potrero Hill

Thanks for all of the advice so far! Some clarifications:
1) I definitely NEED to be in an urban center. It just fits my personality a lot better than anything vaguely suburban, and I know that I'll be happier that way
2) Without me divulging more about my job, there is no need to worry about commute time, as it won't be hard on me.
3) I know that I obviously won't be able to live in neighborhoods like Nob Hill, Russian Hill, etc. But I don't expect to be able to live in the Ritziest neighborhood. In fact I'd probably like something with a little bit more flavor.

I don't know that much about public transportation in San Fran, so some info/thoughts on that would be great too! I'd really appreciate any thoughts/insights on neighborhoods that would work, and where to definitely stay away from.

Thanks,

W

It does depend a bit what "scene" means--but there are plenty of options. I have friends who live in the lower and upper Haight (think: along Haight Street, near Golden Gate Park, or closer to the mint/Castro), and it seems that multiple-bedroom apartments are within that price range there. Plus a decent number of interesting bars, clothing stores, etc. The Mission has gentrified quite a bit, but my impression is that if one heads towards the outer Mission, apartments (especially shared apartments/apts w/friends) are very doable for that price range. Both of those are decently close to either 101 or 280. And Hayes Valley is pretty pricey, but also interesting and right in the middle of everything.

In general, my impression is that one can find shared apartment situations for the $1,000 price range in many neighborhoods, although prices have gone up a bit. In many neighborhoods, $1,000 (on its own) used to get a modest studio apartment, but wouldn't now.

It likely wouldn't hurt to get a MUNI public transportation map to see your bus and metro (subway) options. Many of my friends who live in the City (and work there or in Oakland) don't own cars; others do, but only use them to leave the City, relying otherwise on MUNI buses and the metro. MUNI does have some odd policies--for example, they will pull buses off of some lines to fill gaps in others, if there is a problem (I have a friend on Twin Peaks who complains about the 37 Corbett bus always being poached), but plenty of lines have decent service, and it wouldn't hurt to ask in a cafe or folks in a store what they know.

If you're coming to visit, it wouldn't hurt to rent a car so you can get the feel of those neighborhoods that are more suburban or may feel a bit more disconnected from the rest of the city (Sunset/Outer Sunset, Richmond, those parts south of the Sunset, the Marina, etc.), or those that feel closer.

I guess a lot of this is pretty obvious--please pardon me, if so.

-Hayden

Are you working for Google, which provides free shuttles? Sounds about right, given all the constraints. Basically avoid anything on the south-eastern part of the city, as well as the tenderloin. The rest depends on how much you're willing to spend.

Places to look for info
 

For info on the neighbourhoods, check out this link on SFGate:
http://www.sfgate.com/traveler/guide/sf/neighborhoods/

I think some of these 'names' are only used by the site, for ex., I've never heard anyone actually use the term 'deco ghetto'.

For apts, check out www.craiglist.org

I just did a search for 3 bed apts for $3250 in SF...and I found several options, mainly in more outer neighbourhoods, but onese that probably have more local flavour (as you have expressed a preference for).

Be aware that you won't have parking for 3 included at that price and you may end up having to pay for parking...which could add several hundreds dollars to your cost. Or you may have to search for parking...

The areas that seem to be closest to the described environment would be either SOMA or inner Mission. You are likely to find a more reasonable rent structure in the inner Mission and would be close to BART and MUNI. SOMA is going to be pricier, but depending on what you find, you could be within walking distance of a lot of nightlife. Potrero Hill could be affordable, but access to MUNI is more limited. If you want to look at public transportation maps, you should visit the SFMUNI and BART websites to get a better understanding of the logistics.

I commute from SF to Palo Alto every day and I completely understand the desire to live in an urban environment. Yes, Mountain View is nice but it just doesn't have the same energy (or the same restaurants) as SF. There's something to be said for being able to walk down to Delfina, Nopa or Zuni for dinner on a Tuesday night.

Even if you have a door-to-door shuttle, I would STRONGLY recommend living in a neighborhood with close freeway access. Getting from certain neighborhoods (such as the Marina, Pac Heights, the Richmond, Russian Hill, etc.) can add 30 minutes or more to your already long commute. I would suggest Noe Valley, parts of the Mission, Duboce Triangle, Lower Haight, Hayes Valley and, to a lesser extent (due to slightly more difficult freeway access), the Castro. South Beach is also good, though probably out of your price range. I live in Lower Haight and love the urban grittiness of the neighborhood, though crime is a concern for some. The only way to know whether a neighborhood will work for you is to come out here and spend some time walking around.

I think urban grittiness is overrated!

When my son attended USF he lived in the Upper Richmond district (near Presidio). Hope I have my geography right. The biggest problem for him was that there was a micro-climate where he lived and he rarely saw the sun. He was fogged in nearly all of the time. He was always surprised when he traveled outside of his immediate area to see that the sun was actually shining. It was very depressing to live in that gloomy, dreary climate.

Great point. However, this is not a big issue in most of the freeway adjacent neighborhoods (with the big exeption of the area near SFSU).

:) :)

I definitely do plan on flying out this spring for an extended weekend to check things out and get a feel for the place. Then probably a trip or two this summer to actually find a place. Based on this list I should be hunting in:

Potrero Hill
SOMA
Noe Valley
Lower Haight
Sunset
Richmond

Any additions? (Its also a definite possibility that I'll be willing to shell out more for a really great place...but I'll burn that bridge when it comes time to). Thanks so much for the help so far! Keep it coming! Any neighborhoods in San Francisco that you guys just absolutely love?

I would avoid the Sunset and the Richmond based on your criteria. Both feel more suburban with the exception of a few small pockets (like Clement street in the Richmond) and public transit is pretty bad out there. I have a friend who lives in the Outer Sunset and it takes her longer to get downtown on Muni than it does for me to get to Palo Alto. Potrero Hill is a great neighborhood but keep in mind that parts of it can be very dangerous. It's one of those odd places where a block or two can make the difference between living in one of the trendiest urban neighborhoods in the city and living in the middle of some of the most sketchy housing projects on the West Coast. SOMA can also be pretty bad in places (pretty much anywhere North of Folsom between 5th and 8th).

Also, the Mission is missing from your list. It has some of the best food in the city and rents can be a great deal. It's also one of those neighborhoods that varies wildly block by block, so be sure you know what you are getting into before you rent.

The Mission will probably offer you the most options. Two areas that I love that might meet your requirements. They are generally more expensive, but I like that they are quieter, but a very quick walk (think 3 minutes) to trendier (and grittier) areas..

I absolutely love Cole Valley. Near the park, walking distance to the Haight, yet still a quiet oasis with great public transport links. It does tend to be pricier, but you never know what might be available. If I hadn't found my place here in Noe Valley, I'd be canvassing Cole Valley every weekend.

The other area that might be a budget stretch is the area around Mission Dolores Park / Liberty Hill. Beautiful views, beautiful victorians, yet you can get to the Lower Haight, Castro, and Valencia Corridor / Mission by walking.

This is probably my favorite part of the city, and I live in Cole Valley! I like the fact that it straddles a few different neighborhoods. Restaurants, nightlife - a lot is in walking distance. And easy transportation links are nearby - esp. if you are able to find a place a bit closer to Market where the MUNI lines are easily accessible. And the weather is really good in that part of town.

You should take a look a some MUNI maps to get a better feel.

As you get towards downtown, Market St. serves as the main artery. A lot of the major transportation lines will merge onto Market and head down towards the Ferry Building and the Embarcadero.

Once on Market and east of Civic Center, transportation aboveground can be incredibly slow with all the cars, buses, and the historic F streetcar. The MUNI lines (J, K, L, M, and N) are more efficient at that point as they run underground - though the MUNI lines themselves are often prone to delays and sometimes, total meltdowns. And once aboveground, MUNI can be just as slow as buses, sometimes slower. Then there is BART - again, efficient, but stops and coverage are limited in SF. Otherwise, the only public transportation to many parts of the city (such as the Richmond) and cross town are buses.

But without more details as to how you plan to get to work (driving? shuttle? if shuttle, from where?), it's hard to recommend specific neighborhoods. If I were hard pressed, I would recommend Hayes Valley or Duboce Triangle as providing good transportation links.

How bad does the bad get in San Francisco? I'm originally from Chicago...where some areas I would be terrified to step foot in day or night. But comparably in Boston, I don't find any neighborhood to be entirely terrifying/awful.

-W

I know very little about Chicago, but from what I've heard, I'm sure San Francisco's bad parts are nothing like Chicago's bad parts. There are no neighborhoods that I would say are entirely off-limits here, at least not any of the neighborhoods that you have on your list. It's really more of a block-by-block issue, often influenced by the presence of large 60's era housing projects. Just be sure that you spend some time walking around the immediate two blocks surrounding any apartment you intend to rent so you can avoid any unfortunate surprises.

Check out Noe Valley. A lot of folks comuting to the south live her (and yes, the Google bus comes here). Easy I-280 access. We live her on Dolores St. and walked by a FOR RENT sign on Sunday for a 3 bdrm, 1 bath place in a lovely location for $2550 (no parking). Noe Valley and the Mission are both relatively easy access and ground zero for most of what is happening for anyone under 40. We are not under 40 but love living here.

I grew up in Chicago, next to Austin on the West Side (and also down in Hyde Park). Now I live in West Oakland, and I've walked all over in SF, except for some parts of Bayview Hunters Point. Maybe it's a lack of the sense of a place you get from having grown up in that place, but I've never gotten the feelings here I've had walking down certain Chicago streets (especially Cabrini, back before it was demolished, and, perhaps ironically, Bridgeport). In general, there's not quite the same level of segregation (class/race) that you'd see in Chicago--maybe that's a contributor. SF seems to share the Boston characteristic of having smaller neighborhoods--walk a few blocks and you're in a different one--that might contribute, too.

The bad in San Francisco and Oakland is probably the Bayview and parts of East and West Oakland--not too many neighborhoods to avoid, if you're looking to avoid places. As a number of posters have noted, quite a few neighborhoods have a few bad parts, block by block, and the best way to see how things are is simply to go to where you're looking to rent.

-Hayden

P.S. What do people think about Hayes Valley, with the new Octavia Street on-ramp to 101?

I use that ramp every day from Lower Haight. It's much, much faster than the old Duboce Street onramp to the Central Freeway. The only issue is coming home in the evenings because the Bay Bridge traffic often backs up to well before the 101/80 interchange. But calling 511 (and getting a car with traffic reporting navigation) keeps me from ever getting caught up in that backup.

Aside from a few neighborhoods, not very bad. The ones that I would consider dangerous, where the housing projects are located, take some effort to get to and most San Fransiscans never find themselves there. Other areas, such as the Tenderloin, are not the best but still can be walked at night without too much risk, IMHO.

I also would eliminate the Richmond and Sunset. For the most part, they're suburban enclaves within the city limits.

The other four areas seem to be good choices for you. The SOMA area near the Giants ballpark should be considered - good transport to other areas of SF and to the peninsula; growing, vibrant, and diverse. Getting to $1K/month/person will be a challenge. Set your limit a bit higher and you'll have many more choices.

Looking forward to having another FTer in town!

"Moving to SFO"

I suggest that you not move to SFO. While the air connections would be very convenient, I suggest that an airport is no place to call your home (although many FTers seem to do just that). I suggest S.F. instead.

Congratulations on your upcoming move! :)

I came here eight months ago. I asked friends for neighborhood recommendations, plumbed the depths of Craigslist and studied maps. I hadn't considered the Richmond, but when I arrived I stayed with friends who lived there and found I liked it so much that I got a place two blocks from theirs near 5th and Geary.

I like the Inner Richmond because it's relatively close to the action and has pockets of activity, such as Clement Street, but feels safe and is fairly quiet. Bus access to downtown is usually pretty good and there are several options, though it can suck to be at the mercy of the 38-Geary; still, cabs are usually plentiful and not too pricey. Parking can be frustrating --I rented a space for a few months before deciding to sell my car.

But what's right for me may not work for you. My advice? Take a few days and ride the buses around. Hop off in any neighborhood that looks interesting and walk around. Keep an eye on Craigslist to get a feel for prices so you'll know what to expect. Talk to people.

Good luck with the move!

I couldn't agree more. I lived at 2nd & California for four years and 10th & Clement for four more. Clement Street is everything I love about San Francisco.

I'm going to be doing an internship for 3 months this summer in downtown Mountain View (Castro St), so will be looking to rent/sublet a 1/2/3 BR furnished apartment/house depending on whether a couple of my friends decide to take up the internship.

1. Is it possible to find something within walking distance of my work location?
2. What would be the range of rentals are for this area? I've seen 1BR sublets on craigslist for $800-850 per month in the Mountain View area.
3. Whats the availability of cabs like in the south bay area - for those drunken evenings?

Prez Bush,

Consider being environmentally aware and not have a long commute. It only adds to pollution and global warming. I'm serious! Don't be an ugly American, live closer to your job in San Mateo county.

Thanks for your input 50 J. I actually do plan on being environmentally conscious, by NOT owning a car and using group transportation to work. While hopping on a bike obviously creates less pollution...I found Palo Alto/Mountain View/Sunnyvale to be a little too "suburban" for my tastes. I like living close to or in a very active/vibrant area, and while the South Bay area does have a lot going for it...its just not my cup of tea.

-W

Have you considered Burlingame or San Mateo? Not too far from the city and almost halfway between San Francisco and Mountainview. Very accessible to the city and the airport in case you want to do some Mileage runs.

I think Burlingame is cute but I don't think it fits the OP's criteria of urban. It's definitely more suburban, albeit with a cute little downtown and at least one great restaurant (Pisces). San Mateo is even more suburban feeling.

I'm not the best source for this, but have been spending the last few weekends helping a friend look around Mountain View for a place to buy. There are a few condo and townhouses complexes near Castro, and a few houses and apartments a couple of blocks away. So yes, it's possible to find something within walking distance. But the local transportation to downtown MV is quite good for a suburb - they have several buses, the light rail, and Caltrain - so you can easily expand your search zone if you choose.

As for pricing, $800-$850 seems very low. I haven't researched it, but over $1000 seems much more likely for a one-bedroom. You should be able to get a rooom or share a place for $800-$850. Craigslist is a good source for either.

There are cabs in the South Bay, but it's not like SF where you can flag them down. Generally you'll need to call and wait. Outside of SF and San Jose, MV has as many clubs as any other city in the area, so if you get a place in the area, you can walk (or crawl).

Yes, no one here has mentioned Bernal Heights. My neighborhood :D

It is one of the hills of SF and very popular with the dot commers of the 90s, which caused a dramatic appreciation in the value of my home <thank you very much>.

It is conveniently located between 280 and 101, so you have a choice of either freeway. It is also close to public transportation. Mission Street has 4 bus lines and can connect you to Bart at 24th Street.

It is a terrific neighborhood with great restaurants (especially along Cortland), a public library, a large amount of open space and parks (and all overhead wires are undergrounded) so the views are spectacular from most areas. The streets are narrow, some still surfaced with brick and even some still dirt. The further you are from Mission the easier the parking. There are many bikers on the hill which love the ride down, but not so much the trek back up. There is both a small local grocery store on the top of the hill with a butcher's shop and organic everything and a Safeway at the bottom of the hill if that is your preference. You will not find a *bucks, but there is a Martha's on Cortland with free wireless. There isn't much traffic because of the narrow streets, so it is a bit insulated from the rest of the City in that respect.

Most of the homes in the area are over 100 years old which usually means a lot of character like a fireplace, hardwood floors, and high ceilings.

If you want a feel for the neighborhood you can visit this site

I used to live right on Castro in Mountain View, in these apts: http://www.prometheusreg.com/residen...l/pplDesc.html

great location but have gotten pricey, about $1700 for a 1 bedroom

one nice thing about castro is that it has both light rail and caltrain stops so you can probably find something a bit cheaper and and commute.

I'm currently renting along the light rail in San Jose and usually head over on Sundays for the farmer's market. The light rail doesn't run too late though, I think it ends at midnight.

I can't imagine that you will get something within walking distance for $850 a month but it may be possible by renting a room in a house with a bunch of others. Mountain View is pretty big and most of it isn't within walking distance of Castro.

You can sometimes find a cab at the caltrain station. Other than that you would need to call for one.

Depends where in Pot. Hill you live - 3rd Street Muni light rail will be fully operational in April and already runs on weekends. This would mean the closer you live to the waterfront the more convenient your commute could be. You could also consider living within walking distance of the 22nd street Caltrain station to make your commute even more tolerable. Overall, I think Pot. Hill offers good value in the sqft size/view/parking/neighborhood categories. Of the neighborhoods I've lived in (Hayes Valley, downtown and ocean beach), this is by far my favorite.

I used to work about 45 minutes south in Palo Alto and DEFINITELY found Pot. Hill a pleasure for the commute; where my richmond/nob hill/fillmore friends had an extra 20 minutes or more added onto their commute each way dealing with city traffic. YMMV.