another public transportation saga
 

Is public transport this complicated in all major cities in America? Google Maps is indispensable here but you will have a tough time if you just rely on that.



On a trip a few months ago, Google Map told me to take a train and it showed me where to catch it on Market St. I go there , thinking I’m suppose to take a streetcar but I can’t figure out where to catch it and none of the streetcars seemed right. After a while I find out I’m supposed to be taking a MUNI train from underground. I make my way down to the underground platform, a train comes but goes right past me and eventually stops at the far end of the platform. I make a run for it and manage to get on. Lesson learned, fair enough.



On this trip, I’m trying to go to Golden Gate Bridge. Google map said bus 101 from downtown to Golden Gate Bridge for $2.75. I get to the bus stop and there is no sign for route 101. There are signs for other bus routes. I ask people, nobody knows. A MUNI bus stops and I ask the driver about route 101. He says he thinks that’s “the green bus” and says I should wait there. Lo and behold a white and green bus with 101 sign shows up. Apparently it’s called Golden Gate Transit. Google Map makes zero distinction between different bus types. I get on this bus. I’ve got my Clipper Card ready with $3 balance on it. I tap but it doesn’t accept. The driver says I may not have enough fund. He tells me he thinks it’s $5 something to Golden Gate. So I add $3, but still no cigar. Luckily the driver is kind and patient. I ask him what I’m supposed to do, and he tells me he thinks you’re supposed to have at least $8 and something on your balance. So I add $3 more to Clipper Card, retap my iPhone and this time the driver says “you’re good,” but the machine took $11and change and it tells me my Clipper Card is now in the hole by negative $2+. The driver tells me to tap again on the way out and it should give me some money back. Indeed I hit back $7.20 and now my balance was positive $4+. But it worked out that the trip cost ~$4.50 instead of the $2.75 per Google Map.



On the way back, I was waiting to get on the Golden Gate Transit at the bus stop thinking it was shared with MUNI just like in downtown. But then I saw a green bus come down the highway and stop about a couple hundred feet away. I ran for it and was able to get on because there were people getting off. Absolutely nothing was straightforward on this trip.



Today I took a MUNI train. I got on, along with a bunch of other people. I was the only guy tapping anything while boarding. And people not tapping as they get off either. Made me wonder if I was doing anything wrong. What is going on?

I don’t know if I can ever master Bay Area’s public transport system.

Some of the transit systems in the USA are overly complicated (I always think NYC is ridiculous and I've probably visited there more than any other city over the past 35 years). But I've been to SF a lot too, so here is my take as a frequent visitor.

First, I would recommend the Transit app. It is different, but I like it better than Google Maps and I'll only use Google Maps if Transit isn't available. Transit is based more on, "I need directions from where I am standing for right now", so if you use it that way, you can expand the walking directions from where you are to specific stop.

However, some of your issues probably would have still happened with Transit, if you didn't expand the walking directions. (If you expand the walking directions, it does call out elevators, escalators, and stairs, which might have helped you realize you need to go underground.) Along Market St, the Muni Metro runs underground, and it is only the Streetcar (like F) that is at street level there, That is something you just learn. Most apps won't put you on the F, since it tends to be slower.

As for Muni payment, you need proof of fare if you are inspected. Personally, I buy a day pass in the Muni app, so there is nothing to tap. Bus drivers don't do fare enforcement, but there are multiple ways to pay, and if someone has a day/week/monthly pass, they won't necessarily show it when boarding a vehicle.

The 101 is operated by Golden Gate Transit, and Google Maps should have said that. When I pull that up on Transit right now from Market St, it says the fare is $4.60. The other thing that is handy with Transit, is you can turn off specific transit companies. So if you eventually learn that something like Golden Gate Transit doesn't work for you, you can turn it off in Transit results.

No matter the city, I recommend looking for the bus number at the bus stop, utility post, etc. (In SF at some lightly used stops, it can be hard to find.) When I went to Seoul many years ago, I used Daum (which is like a South Korean version of google) and even though I couldn't read Hangul, it would help me get to the right stop if there were multiple stops along a block. I think I used a combination of Google Maps and CityMapper in Taipei this past year, and that was another place where it was sometimes challenging to find the correct bus stop, but they were usually all marked; just many to choose from in a single block.)

SF is a little funky, but you will get used to it. The best thing is to ask questions, here or from a driver like you did, or other people at a stop or on the vehicle.

As a local. I do not disagree.

Muni - not distance based so no tapping off.

It is the most Balkanized metropolitan series of transit systems anywhere in the world, or at least anywhere I've been. There are nearly 30 independent systems, each with its own fare structure. For me to go to a neighborhood in San Francisco not near a BART station most efficiently from home (Berkeley, but BART is a substantial walk) but involves an AC Transit bus, BART, and then MUNI. Three fares, one is distance based, and depending on the moon phase, there can be a slight discount provided for multi-system use with a Clipper card. Over $10 to go one way about 12 or 13 miles. Each transit system fiefdom is quite protective over its jurisdiction and funding, and almost each one is its own political entity, with taxing and spending power. Some are accountable via the ballot, others are not.

As a visitor the only sane way to manage this is with a Clipper card (or mobile) and just figure that you'll be charged the correct sum.

It is kind of like travel in the Euro zone prior to a unified border and currency.

I'm not a Bay Area local, but I visit for a week or ten days every eight months or so--and I learn something new about transit every time.
No. Eastbay1K described the situation well and is quoted below.

Google does say it's Golden Gate Transit, although the information is well hidden. I'm certainly not criticizing you, and I'm not even criticizing Google (because I don't know how to make the information more obvious in the limited display space). Select the routing that includes bus 101, then scroll to the bottom of the routing. At least when I look on my laptop, it says the following.
Google does show an incorrect fare, and it doesn't give any warning that when you tap on, it charges you the maximum (to Santa Rosa, I believe) and refunds the excess charge when you tap off.

While there are multiple ways to pay, many people do seem to consider paying to be optional.
On my most recent visit (with a group), a facilitator used the Transit app and recommended it highly. I have not (yet) tried it.
This statement should be included in TalkMail. I have no idea what entity had the god-like power to decree that all those transit systems must accept Clipper, but in the absence of that decree, I'm certain that many of them would not.

Thanks for the tip. I will definitely try that app the next time I'm there.

This time the Golden Gate Transit thing really threw me off. I realized after the fact that most of their stops have the little Golden Gate Transit sign although they don't post the bus route numbers.

Thanks for your perspective as a local. I used to be a stickler for never loading onto Clipper card more than what the app told me. But given the unpredictability of transfer rules and discounts going from one system to another, and especially after my experience with Golden Gate Transit, I have learned that it's just best to keep a bit of safety pad on your Clipper Card balance.

Question: As a visitor using Clipper Card, you can never go wrong tapping every single time you get on and get off anything, correct?

Okay, I see what you're talking about.
On the Google Map app on Iphone, you scroll all the way down to the bottom, click on "agency info," and then you see '511 SF Bay' and 'Golden Gate Transit' come up.
Tbh I would not have known what to do with that info.

This is sadly* incorrect. The basic** rule of thumb is that if the fare varies by distance (Caltrain, and apparently GGT? which I never took with Clipper while I lived in the area) you have to tap on and tap off so it knows how far you went and how much to charge you.

Fixed fare (SamTrans busses, VTA bus or light rail) you only tap on. If you "tap off" you are paying again.

In some cases like BART it'll be obvious because you have to tap again to open the fare gates to exit.

*BTW "sadly" is not a reflection on you or your question, but the consistent inconsistency. You can't really know this unless you know in advance which agency/mode you're taking and having looked up the info first.

In contrast in e.g. Taipei I think there are or maybe used to be all 3 types of busses (tap only when boarding, tap only when alighting, tap both on and off) which is also confusing as all hell to this tourist anyway, but at least there are signs in Chinese and English once you step on the bus that will tell you which type it is.

(to be fair, if I recall correctly some of the Bay Area transit modes may have a sign somewhere, but as an ex-local I haven't needed to look for one in a while)​​​​​

**this is not intended as an exhaustive treatise, variations and edge cases may exist

Fare jumpers, transfers, or Fast Pass (or similar). Also, youths under 18 ride for free.

Don't tap twice on muni. Just to board. It's fixed fare.

I would provide an example of an edge case, but it didn't apply to me and so I didn't pay attention. There was some transit agency that had distance-based fares, so riders tapped on and tapped off. That agency spun off another entity that took over some of the routes. The spin-off agency's routes were not distance-based, but nonetheless had a tap-on and tap-off setup, perhaps because the regular riders were accustomed to that procedure from pre-spin-off days. I believe, but am not at all certain, that the spin-off is in Marin County.

Eastbay1K or Kacee, have I provided enough information that you can elaborate?

If I'm in Marin County, it is usually in a motor vehicle registered to my name ;) The only thing I can think of, and have no idea if I'm just wasting everyone's time (including my own) is GG Transit and SMART. The only tap on/off system I deal with is BART. AC Transit has a fare for local service and another forTransbay service, but they're fixed, so no tap off.

I grew up in San Rafael (Terra Linda). My parents sold their house in 2003. I found the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District (GGBHTD) and its Golden Gate Transit fairly intuitive to use for over three decades. The core principle is that there are different zones, hence verification upon disembarking.

https://www.goldengate.org/district/about-the-district/

https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge,_Highway_and_Transportation_Dis trict

For muni, there are people who will not need to tap their phone nor clipper card on the bus - and only for entry:

under 18 years of age (relatively new rule - under 5 years old? I used to pay as a kid)
monthly pass holders
daily / weekly / multi day pass holders - we just buy it on muni app. Easy to show from muni app if there’s an inspector.

also:
fare dodgers.

people dodge fares all around the world and it’s happened for decades.

and definitely the case where we cant just copy the punter in front of us as usually works. It’s a true ymmv situation.

MUNI's CC tap function supposedly opened Dec 10, following BART's earlier this year. Nice to see another city support CC tap and not have to deal with yet another region-specific card/app. The only thing I don't like about the CC tap from other cities like Singapore and London is that it only charges your total amount per day instead of each individual amount. As someone who likes to double check their CC transactions, I like individual transactions. But it's a minor thing.

Used the muni app today because I bought an all day pass for the bus based on a few errands that I didn’t know how long they’d take… I do love the muni app.