Will RyanAir Rip Me Off?
 

Hello everyone! I plan on buying a one-way ticket to Europe, Stockholm to be exact, for May 2008. After a lot of research and stuff, I've pretty much come up with the cheapest plan I can think of to get to Stockholm...

1. Chicago to Frankfurt International Airport (via AirIndia for $302.10)
2. 2-3 day lapse for transport from Frankfurt Int. to Frankfurt-Hahn (12 Euro, not including accomodation)
3. Frankfurt-Hahn to Stockholm S. Skavsta (NYO) via RyanAir (19.48 euro)
4. Bus over to Stockholm (unsure of cost)

So, to my questions...

1. What fees and charges can I expect from RyanAir aside from the price of the ticket?
2. How much of a lapse do you feel is necessary to get from Frankfurt Int. to Frankfurt-Hahn?
3. I want to give myself enough time to get from Frankfurt Int. to Frankfurt-Hahn, but if I have an extra day or two, is it possible to sleep in the airport?

My 1st question (about RyanAir fees) is my biggest concern. Thats why I entitled the post as I did! Thanks in advance!

For the European low cost carriers, there are two things to keep in mind.

1) Extra luggage fees are very expensive. Check their web site and make sure that you are within the luggage limits.

2) Typically if you miss your flight they force you to buy a new ticket. Make sure you check in early.

Unless you're loaded down with check-in luggage, you should be ok. I have flown Ryan Air dozens of times, and have yet to have a bad experience.

The bus trip from Frankfurt to Frankfurt Hahn is a little under two hours, door-to-door.

Regarding sleeping in the airport. It is not my cup of tea. I suppose you could do it in Frankfurt. Frankfurt Hahn has a very small terminal, so it may not be possible.

There is a nice hostel in Mainz, which is very close to the Frankfurt airport. Many of the busses that run between Frankfurt Hahn and the Frankfurt airport will stop in the city center in Mainz, so it "on the way".

You can also consider Priceline bidding. Frankfurt is a big Priceline city. You can check for the amount of winning bids on www.biddingfortravel.com

One last thought. Check Kayak.com for Lufthansa or SAS flights between FRA and ARN. They often run excellent promotions for the spring, at around $120rt between Frankfurt and Stockholm. It may be a few more dollars, but will save you tons of time, hassle, and the potential of luggage overage charges via Ryan Air.

With Ryanair WILL it's best to assume that you are going to be ripped off as they will try to extract every possible bit of money from you that they can. They will "helpfully" add things to your booking that you don't need

The best place to start is Ryanair's own list of fees & charges

Let's start with "Frankfurt" to "Stockholm" (hint NEITHER airport is close to the city) on 21 Mar 2008 for someone who isn't savvy with Ryanair's thieving ways

Basic fare €9.99
Taxes, fees & charges €14.49
1 bag to check-in €9
Priority boarding €3
Insurance €12
Credit Card Fee €3

So your €10 flight now costs €52 and if you exceed the 15kg checked luggage allowance you get hammered for €8 per kg in excess - so someone travelling with 20kg pays another €40 on top of everything else

If booking multiple flights and/or multiple passengers then the CC fee is per passenger per flight - ie 2 people doing a return trip will pay €12 in CC fees not €3

You can avoid most of these fees however

Priority boarding and insurance are optional (though they may not seem to be) so that's €15 and you can use an Electron card to get free booking. If you have hand luggage only AND ARE a citizen of an EEA country then you can use online check-in so the cost goes down to €25

Short answers
 

Will RyanAir Rip Me Off?

Please choose the correct answer from this multiple choice test:

1. Yes, if they can.

2. Yes, if you let them.

3. Yes, even if you try to prevent them from doing so.

4. All of the above.

:mad:

Also note that Ryanair's checked baggage allowance (once you've paid for it) is only 15kg, where most airlines give 20+

So if you are flying with 23kg, which most airlines would accept, FR will likely hit you with overweight costs too!

-- Mike

Ryanair WILL hit you with overweight costs.

I honestly can't see why you'd want to do this to yourself. For next May, Lufthansa will sell you a return flight from FRA to ARN for £65 (Euro 100), Expedia has just shown me. All-in. With taxes. No check-in fee. No baggage fee. No excess luggage fee if you are above 15kg but below 23kg. No trip to Hahn. No bus ride from Skavsta. No-one trying to sell you lottery tickets on the plane. Allocated seating. Probably a free cup of coffee and a sandwich each way as well. Departing and arriving to proper airports which are not converted military airfields with minimal facilities. On an airline which will offer you compensation or rebook you if the flight is cancelled or delayed. BOOK THE LUFTHANSA FLIGHT!

Quite. Why risk the potential for serious aggravation for the sake of a few Euros?

Ryanair will certainly try to rip you off, and you have to pay attention to try to avoid paying for insurance/priority boarding/airport check-in/card fees. That said, assuming you don't have too much luggage (15kg ought to be enough for anybody) Ryanair will be a lot cheaper (particularly as you are flying oneway) and not too inconvenient. As another poster noted, the bus from FRA to Hahn Airport takes about two hours; you shouldn't need to spend the night unless you want to visit Frankfurt. Lots of people around this forum seem to think they are too good to fly Ryanair, but when you can find sub-€20 fares it is worth it and the service isn't significantly worse than a lot of "legacy" airlines these days.

Raffles: I've only had easyJet try to sell me lottery tickets; I've actually found Ryanair's staff to be much less annoying. At any rate, I see no way that avoiding a few small annoyances and inconveniences could possibly be worth spending €60 extra.

Listen to these two. They're absolutely right.

If the fare difference was hundreds of Euros, then I would disagree, but for the 20ish Euros you'll end up saving it's not worth the hassle. There is a time to be cheap - this is not one of them.

Last February, I flew FDH-STN-DUB-STN-FDH with Ryanair on their "0.01€ all-in" fares (the only time it's really worth mucking about with that sorry excuse for a bus with wings), and I vividly recall the annoucements (twice on each flight) that I could buy a scratch card that would allow me to "Become a Millionaire with Ryanair!" 2€ each, I think.

I have nothing against LCCs, and fly them regularly, but Ryanair is a basket case and you'll only find me on one of their aircraft if I got one of their flights for "free" or have no other viable choice.

Especially as no-one has factored in the costs of getting to & from the various airports Ryanair use - both airports being over 100km from the cities they serve

People seem to be neglecting the fact that the original poster is flying oneway; Lufhtansa oneway fares on this route are absurdly high. That said, SAS has flights next May from FRA to ARN for $70 (€47), plus €10 for the bus into Stockholm, so €57 total. Ryanair would cost him €20 plus €12 to get from FRA to Hahn, €16 for the bus into Stockholm, and, assuming he has a US credit card and passport, €3 for card fee and €3 for airport check in, thus €54 total. If he has any bags to check or intends to eat during the flight, then he should certainly book the SAS flight.

I don't understand the mentality a lot of people in this supposedly "budget" forum have of throwing away loads of money to avoid "potential serious aggravation" (as though this cause them sort of permanent psychological harm :-P). €20 is a lot of money, it would be mad to throw it away for so little reason. That said, it is important to research the various extra costs of flying Ryanair when comparing it to others, and in this case SAS is almost certainly a cheaper option.

Looking at the OP's other post on FT the plan seems to be to go backpacking around Europe for an extended period.

I know backpackers like to travel light, but I can't somehow see someone going on an extended trip with less than 10 kg of baggage (Ryanair's carry-on limit) so there would almost definitely be a checked bag fee in addition to all the other add-on fees. And aren't checked bag fees and check-in fees due to go up again in the near future?

SAS is more and more starting to look like the better option!

My Two Cents on Ryanair
 

First, I think the advice given you by others is right--since we are well in advance of your travel dates, you ought to get the deal on SAS from FRA to ARN--while ARN is 20+ miles north of central Stockholm, there is plenty of reasonably priced public transportation options (and you might find a decent cheap place in Uppsala, the famous college town which is only about 10 miles north of ARN). Skavsta is 5 miles or so from the small city of Nykoping, from where you could catch either a bus or a train to central Stockholm, 60 miles northeast.

Ryanair does have its place, however. I have taken 5 separate trips on Ryanair, and have had good experiences on each. You really have to play ball by their rules and follow those rules to the letter. In other words, you need to show up at the airport 2 hours in advance, to make sure that you reach the check-in counter and get your boarding pass at least 40 minutes prior to scheduled departure, or you will lose your reservation and your pre-paid airfare--no refunds, no waivers, no favors. You also need to bring your own food and drink on board if you want to eat while you fly (buy bottled drinks in the secure area of the airport), because their prices for drinks and snacks on board are very high (I recall an 8 oz. can of Coke and a small can of Pringles went for E5 in 2003). Ryanair's flights are typically short (I went to the 2006 Winter Olympics on them, STN-TRN-STN, and according to the captain the flight was 576 airline miles, the same distance as BWI-ATL here in the states, which we covered in 85 minutes), so the seating is not that big a deal, certainly not worth paying a premium for. Ryanair does have scheduled bus services to its remote airfields (for example, catch the bus to "Paris-Beauvais" outside the convention center at the Porte Maillot Metro station--the fare was something like E13 one way, and the bus reached BVA airport 75 minutes later); some of their airports, like Stansted, Prestwick and Turin, actually have regular train service to the centers of their cities; some other of their small airports, like Biarritz-Anglet-Bayonne in southwest France, are actually within a couple of miles of the center of town.

Ryanair's airports serving certain cities are ridiculous in terms of the distance from town--Hahn, 124 km (77 miles) from Frankfurt; Beauvais, 80 km (50 miles) from Paris; Torp, 70 miles from Oslo; Skavsta, 60 miles from Stockholm; Charleroi, 30 miles from Brussels; Girona, 60 miles from Barcelona; Eindhoven, 50 miles from Amsterdam; Weeze, 30 miles from Dusseldorf; Salzburg, 1 hour by train from Munich; Stansted, 35 miles from central London (although less than 20 miles from Cambridge); Prestwick, 30 miles from central Glasgow; Bergamo-Orio al Serio, 30 miles from Milan (although the major airport in the region, Malpensa, is on the other side of Milan and even further away); Bratislava, over 30 miles and an international boundary away from Vienna. A number of their airports serving secondary markets are just outside the towns they serve--Derry in the occupied six counties is a real good example of that, around 4 miles outside town.

Ryanair seemed dependable and was flying new 737-800s which it bought directly from the Boeing assembly line, so it has that going for it.

I have never seen Ryanair actually stop anybody from bringing a carryon which is too heavy/large, and I have twice taken a backpack much too large for their dimensions onboard. It is actually shocking that Ryanair misses out on this potential source of revenue, but this has been my experience; perhaps I have gotten very lucky. That said, the SAS flight is still likely to be worth it (though the fare has now risen to $72).

Not sure what these reasonably priced options are, buses from Arlanda into Stockholm seem to cost at least SEK 90 (about €10) while buses from Skavsta were only SEK 150 (about €16), so flying to Arlanda instead of Skavsta is only a small savings.

I have been asked to put my carry-on on the scales on several occasions with Ryanair, both at the check-in desk and at security (bathroom scales at LBC!). I have also seen it happen to others - one one occasion, at STN, I saw a passenger being called back to check-in, after she had started to walk away, when the agent became aware of the backpack she was carrying.

During the aforementioned FDH-STN-DUB-STN-FDH trip, my carry-on was weighed in STN both ways, and in DUB as well since it's a fairly big roll-aboard that looks much heavier than it is. Thankfully, it was 0.1kg lighter than the maximum allowed, so I got to take it aboard with me. Should have seen the looks on their faces... :D

That Was My Experience Too
 

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They weighed my carry on at each check-in station. Before I went on my first trip where I would be carrying on a bag, I bought a cheap small roll-aboard that met their dimension requirements, and made sure that I never had more than 10 kg in the bag.

Have you checked flying other LCC's? Easy Jet, for example, is a much better experience, and often not much more expensive, if it flies the route you want.

You would also have to factor in overnight accom costs in FRA, which could increase your costs significantly.
Something worth considering if you want to avoid Ryanair and also avoid the Frankfurt to Frankfurt-Hahn issue is to fly to DUB, then either onwards direct on SAS (from approx €110 all in) or DUB-CPH on Aer Lingus (from approx €33 all in) and CPH-ARN on either FlyNordic or Sterling (from approx €30/€50 all in respectively).
Oneway flights from ORD to DUB or SNN are usually quite reasonably priced on AA, DL, CO, EI or US (starts around $210 all in). Both AA and EI have direct flights to DUB from ORD.

EasyJet doesn't fly to Frankfurt at all, and is not a much better experience (food still overpriced, still hawk lottery tickets, still charge for checked bags, still screwed in case of cancellation; these are all issues I'm willing to deal with but I've not found Ryanair to be any worse). This far in advance you can find LCC-level prices from legacy carriers anyway.

I disagree. I find Easyjet in practice to be much better than FR. FR stick rigidly and mechanically to their T&Cs, whatever the circumstances. IME, Easyjet apply their T&Cs with common sense (eg: they have a "flat tire" rule, unlike FR). They tend to fly to "proper" airports, rather than glorified sheds hours away from the main city that the airport is meant to serve. Both charge for checked luggage, but Easyjet has no weight limit for carry-on as long as you can lift it yourself.
As to legacy carriers vs LCCs, the difference is nowhere near as big as it used to be. An increasing number of European carriers offer no complimentary catering on European flights. As to irrops, which used to be the most significant differential between LCCs and full service carriers, if you are on a cheap fare, most European legacy carriers will now do the same as the LCCs, viz. will only reroute you on their own services rather than that of another IATA airline.
As to prices, many European legacy carriers still stick to the old model of having to book a return ticket with minimum stay requirements in order to benefit from affordable fares.

To add to the advantages over easyJet over Ryanair listed in the above post:

- EZY may charge you for checked baggage, but at least they give you the industry-standard 20kg (plus reportedly a bit of leeway) rather than the 15kg Ryanair offers (with NO margin for error).

And if any airline ever decides to put pay toilets in its planes, my money says it will be Ryan Air!

Didn't FR use to offer service to "Copenhagen" via Malmo airport which is 70 km away in Sweden?

It's in Sweden, but it's not 70 km away - it's in the Copenhagen commuter belt.

Other (and probably better) examples are "Oslo" Torp (Sandefjord) and "Hamburg" Lübeck... and of course the previously-mentioned middle-of-nowhere "Frankfurt" Hahn.

Though more recently FR seems to have started services to airports that it refers to by their real names - for example, there seems to have been no attempt to market services to "Hamburg Bremen" despite the fact that Bremen and Lübeck are equidistant from Hamburg.

IIRC, they were asked by the OFT a few years back to drop some names when the name of the main city was not in the official name of the airport and the airport is quite distant from said main city. So out went things like Lyon (St Etienne) (they no longer fly there), and the like. That said, they have reverted back to type since then in relation to quite a few destinations, such as Barcelona (Girona), Barcelone (Reus), Grenoble Lyon, Bratislava (Vienna), etc...
And then, there are also the airports where they can quite legitimately use the name of the main city because it is in the name of the airport. Bruxelles (Charleroi) and Frankfurt (Hahn) are the most striking examples of this.

Ryanair has repeatedly been in trouble with the UK's advertising standards authority (ASA) - usually for misleading claims about its prices and/or denigrating is competitors.

Some of the recent ASA rulings can be found here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_ne...00/7048767.stm

Düsseldorf-Weetze also enters into the above category. I spotted a sign by the DUS taxi stand the other day listing the price for a taxi ride to DUS-Weetze as being €100 - € 105.

Moreover, EasyJet doesn't fly to ANY airport in Sweden... :cool:

Ditto here. The one and only time I flew on Ryanair (it was via their "Frankfurt" aiport, BTW) I was asked to weigh my handluggage and then discard items in it. Meanwhile my fellow passengers took their bags though and then stocked up on several kiligrams worth of duty free bottles, when they carried on the same plane. Go figure...

In any case, I was disgusted by the whole Ryanair experience and that was my last time ever flying with them. I have no idea what people are thinking flying them time after time. They dont even have respect for their customers. No amount of fake savings is worth that. And it is fake savings, because they simply load on YOU the cost of:
- stress
- travel cost to and from to distant airports
- time asted doing the above
- weasely hidden fees, even a "fee" for checking in at the airport. (yep)

It is just NOT worth it. Simple as that. I have had far more pleasant experiences taking the bus than I have had on Ryanair. Let's put it that way. Hell, if you are travelling that far in advance, just take a train even. Anything but Ryanair, which IMO makes EasyJet and Monarch feel like luxury carriers!

True, they can be awful, hide charges weigh your bags etc but if you are going on a shortish break and can take hand baggage, book in online pay be debit card they can be unbelievably cheap. Recently Belfast City (closer airport to Belfast than the International) 2p all in return, Rome £16 return all in, Dublin £20.

The only payment card for which there aren't additional charges is the Visa Electron which is the type of card supplied with the most basic of bank accounts in the UK designed for people who shouldn't get into debt

So whilst they can produce a price that doesn't have a card charge, in reality very few people manage to avoid the charge

I assume these prices are from "London" Stansted? Granted, they may be dirt-cheap, but as other posters have mentioned, flying Ryanair is a deeply unpleasant experience. I wouldn't pay 20GBP for a Ryanair flight - for 1p, I'll take it, but otherwise I would rather not go at all than go with Ryanair.

Will Ryanair rip you off? I'll stand by the majority of the posters here. Yes.

We waited too long to book our Mystery Weekend trip and ended up on Ryanair (just missed a nice connection with LX to ZRH, but that's another story). To answer your "taxes" question:

Published RT Fare: €29.98
"Taxes, Fees, & Charges": €42.27
Aviation / WCHR Levy: €11.58

This does NOT include the €5 charge for booking with a credit card, and was done after deselecting anything like "priority boarding" (spending more time in that ad-filled-tube is not where I want to be) or baggage (only a weekend, it's okay). Sure, there are some fantastic deals to be had with FR (in fact, they're most often how I get to DUB and back) but that's when booked far in advance and when absolutely no other option exists.

Book the SK flight if it's still available. It's likely worth it. Or, if not, try something like Air Berlin. They're apparently fairly nice, much more so than FR from what I've heard.

Air Berlin
 

What an excellent idea - why didn't anyone think of it before? They fly from Frankfurt (not Hahn), and one-way fares start at EUR 50 (including taxes etc). There is only one flight a day, and the journey takes a bit longer as it involves a change at TXL... but still better than the long trek to Hahn (and having to endure Ryanscare)

2 from Stansted 1 from Luton. Again I agree that Ryanair is not pleasant, but, but, in certain circumstances, as I have alluded to above it makes sense if you are on a budget.

If you travel with Ryanair - do so with your eyes wide open to all the potential additional charges - credit card, priority boarding, travel insurance boxes ticked and difficult to work out how to untick them, baggages charges, etc, etc., etc.
However having said that you can travel with them and arrive on time or at least on time more often than some of the larger carriers.

I travel with Ryanair regularly and am careful not to get caught for more charges than are absolutely necessary.
You have to realise that with Ryanair you are simply paying for a bum on a seat and no more.

ps. Bring your own food and drink to avoid getting ripped off further.

I echo all of the above