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Originally Posted by browserden
(Post 12611089)
Can anyone recommend a good mileage earning Maestro credit card?
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I've just watched the unedited version of the Doorstep Interview
Very humorous; I'm warming to MOL - I'll have to try this Ryanair carrier sometime ;) |
Originally Posted by crystal_cad
(Post 12611289)
I've just watched the unedited version of the Doorstep Interview Very humorous;
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Originally Posted by ajax
(Post 12611040)
Or perhaps a high proportion of those people who flew Ryanair did so more than once...?
Using BARB's figures , the average weekly reach of BBC1 is 44,184,000 Dave |
Originally Posted by Dave Noble
(Post 12611000)
With a population of 61 million. Would mean that a v high percentage of all the people in the UK plus a lot of tourists flew on FR
Dave |
Just posted on the Ryanair website:
Originally Posted by Ryanair.com
Infamy infamy - Panorama has it infamy!
Speaking tonight after the broadcast of BBC Panorama Michael O'Leary said, "Infamy, infamy - Panorama has it infamy!" To celebrate the 11 false claims made by BBC Panorama Ryanair is releasing 1.1million FREE seats at midnight (12th Oct) on www.ryanair.com - where people can also see Michael O'Leary's full unedited Panorama interview outside Ryanair's AGM. |
What an utterly dreadful programme. I had a look at the correspondence between BBC and Ryanair on the Ryanair website - from what is put up (no doubt only the juicy bits in FR's favour), it does look like an amateur job by the BBC.
Where was their transport correspondent in all this that we sometimes see popping up on FT asking questions or for your experiences? |
I don't really get what people have against Ryanair.
It markets itself as a no frills budget airline. It offers to get you from A to B on time for the lowest price and more often than not, it does so. I live in the US now and UA and Frontier are my airlines of choice (because they're the ones contracted by my work) but if I'm completely honest, UA economy isn't all that much better than Ryanair, at least not enough to justify the price difference for a similar distance flight (Frontier is another matter). Before Ryanair travel around Europe was expensive and elitist. As a student, I had the opportunity to have 10-15 European weekends a year thanks to Ryanair. Usually for about 30 Euros each way. Most of the complaints I see leveled against Ryanair seem to be quite silly in my view, take for example the "hidden charges" - I was a student when I did most of my Ryanair flying, I knew the budget I had going on to the website and at no stage did I think I was going to end up paying 1 cent for a ticket. I factored in the CC charge and the booking fee, I was smart enough to decline the add ons and I could pack a weekends clothes in a carry on. When I paid my 60 Euros return, I didn't through a tantrum because it was 59.99 more expensive than advertised (with taxes, airport charges and ryanair charges) I merely compared it to the Aer Lingus/EasyJet/BMI/BA fares and saw I'd just saved myself about 100 Euros. Then people complain about the level of in-flight service.... errr how do you think the company makes it's money? Do people think Ryanair are offering low prices out of the goodness of their heart? You get what you pay for, period. Ryanair never compares it's standard of comfort of service to BA or any full cost airline. The airport locations... hrmm yes.. I can see an issue here... I'll admit I've looked at some destinations and thought "I'd like to go there" and then seen the actual airport location and decided against it. In other cases...As a casual traveler, Beauvais isn't that much worse than CDG.... OK, you can factor in another 40 Euro bus fair to Paris city centre which may bring your ticket price up, but again, still probably cheaper than flying to CDG and having walked through CDG I don't think strolling out of Beauvais and busing to Paris is less convenient than making your way through and out of CDG on a busy day. I've read posts on the web were people have complained "I was left stranded 120km from the city I wanted to be in" Really? You mean you actually made travel arrangements and arrived at the airport without ever even once looking up the airport transport services?? That would have given you a good idea. And that's Ryanair's fault? Are these the people who sue when they spill coffee on themselves because it was hot? The bottom line is if you blindly book a Ryanair flight and don't actually do any sort of planning or research on the process or don't read the terms of the booking, you kinda deserve what you get. If you want comfort and convenience and are willing to pay, then fly with another airline. If you want budget travel, expect budget travel. Sorry. this turned into a rant :( |
Panorama miss the point, again.
Originally Posted by EMA ON BA
(Post 12610712)
Surely they missed a trick by not focussing on Ryanair's handling of irrops?
Ryanair have been around long enough now that everyone has flown on them and knows that they charge for things that used to be 'free' or have been told by someone that they charge for things that used to be 'free'. I'm sure that when the Aliens invade, part of the handover briefing will include a caveat that a Ryanair 2p fare is really only half the story. I would much prefer Panorama or Dispatches to investigate irrops and the fact that all the airlines try and shirk their obligations under the EU regs. Perhaps Ryanair are the worst, who knows? But please, can they stop banging the 'Ryanair charge for things' and 'their airports aren't always where you think they are' drums as these are neither news, nor newsworthy. |
Originally Posted by Roger
(Post 12611249)
Maestro is the debit card in the MasterCard family. For miles, you would need a MasterCard. I have a bmi MasterCard (apparently no longer issued to new applicants). Most miles-earning credit cards are Visa these days (apart from BA/AmEx and various MBNA/Amex cards).
I was unlucky I didn't join diamond club until after the bmi Mastercard was gone to general application. |
I thought there were some really great take off and landing shots of the Ryanair 737's.
Cheers Larry. PS - I aint paying £4-50 for a butty though. |
Originally Posted by Dave Noble
(Post 12611747)
In which case the same should be applied to the BBC. Taking each programme aired on the BBC and counting the viewing figures for each programme, then the BBC figures would exceed the Ryanair passenger count within a few weeks
Using BARB's figures , the average weekly reach of BBC1 is 44,184,000 Dave O'Leary is multiple-counting when he's talking about Ryanair's passengers. 64 million people may have flown Ryanair last year, but a high proportion of those 64 million people flew Ryanair more than once. If you count up all the times a person watched the BBC last year (counting each viewing as a separate person as O'Leary is counting each passenger flown as a separate person) in the same way, you'd have billions of people. O'Leary is wrong. |
Originally Posted by baggageinhall
(Post 12612621)
Ryanair have been around long enough now that everyone has flown on them and knows that they charge for things that used to be 'free' or have been told by someone that they charge for things that used to be 'free'.
But please, can they stop banging the 'Ryanair charge for things' and 'their airports aren't always where you think they are' drums as these are neither news, nor newsworthy.
Originally Posted by browserden
(Post 12613392)
I know :).
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Originally Posted by ajax
(Post 12617077)
That is exactly my point.
O'Leary is multiple-counting when he's talking about Ryanair's passengers. 64 million people may have flown Ryanair last year, but a high proportion of those 64 million people flew Ryanair more than once. If you count up all the times a person watched the BBC last year (counting each viewing as a separate person as O'Leary is counting each passenger flown as a separate person) in the same way, you'd have billions of people. O'Leary is wrong. You just pay annually for the licence and usually once per household. If the bbc was operated as a pay per view ie like for like,you'd see a substantial drop in its viewership turnaround :) |
Originally Posted by ajax
(Post 12617077)
That is exactly my point.
O'Leary is multiple-counting when he's talking about Ryanair's passengers. 64 million people may have flown Ryanair last year, but a high proportion of those 64 million people flew Ryanair more than once. If you count up all the times a person watched the BBC last year (counting each viewing as a separate person as O'Leary is counting each passenger flown as a separate person) in the same way, you'd have billions of people. O'Leary is wrong. We all owe him a lot. I've never flown with them but admire their success. They must be doing something right, but they are not fro me. But they have helped me by creating an industry that is eve more mindful of value. His big issue will be if ever (g*d forbid) there is an incident. This could quickly bring the airline down as the issue will be either a mechanical / maintenenace issue or a human error and either way the scrutiny of his money saving programmes will be very close and highly judgemental. Just because he can be irritating we shouldn't misjudge his acuman or the success of his product.^ |
I've flown Ryanair a few times although this was a few years ago before they went totally mad with cost cutting. At the time they were great, got you from A to B cheaply and on time. Now they've gone so far I'm with the people that say they are making it deliberately confusing and difficult so as to extract more cash from you.
What really gets my goat is the charges that you HAVE to pay in order to fly. For example, why do I have to pay to check in (even online) when it is not possible for me to fly without doing so? That's like being charged to put a letter in a letter box after you've bought the stamp. Yes, I know that I pay for these services in the fare with other airlines, I prefer it that way, when I know what the price will be upfront. Why do I have to pay to pay?? Surely that has to be illegal, it infruriates me so much that the 'handling' fees are so high and nowhere near what Ryanair is actually charged. If the banks aren't allowed to do this then why is Ryanair? I wouldn't dream of flying Ryanair again because it seems to be their mission to screw you for every penny whilst delivering the bare minimum service that the law currently allows. Not for me. |
'Ryanair gives away 1.1m FREE seats after BBC Panorama lies'
Another FR lie - they're not free, they're 1p/1c each. :D
All-in if you take hand baggage and pay with a Visa Electron card. Book by 14.10.09. FR's pricing policy is flexible. Yesterday, the promotional price was from £2.50 on a wide range of destinations. Today's 'free' offer is to a more limited list, and some of yesterday's are £10 today. I wonder what Thursday's offer will be. It's difficult to argue with FR's 11 claims of inaccuracy at http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....=pro-en-131009 I especially like no. 11: Panorama claimed that “O’Leary is a bully” – this is clearly false when the whole world knows that O’Leary is a kind and gentle, caring and thoughtful, sensitive and saintly human being widely beloved by all Ryanair’s 6,500 people and its 66m passengers. |
I gather the 'public' O'Leary is a very different animal to the real one. Recall some comments from Willie along those lines...MOL was the first to call after the BA38 crash for example.
Really, if you don't like Ryanair, don't fly them. I flew one round trip, was delayed on the return and forced to check my carry on. At that point I decided they weren't for me and haven't gone anywhere near them in 10 years. [hat on] As this isn't even tangentially related to BA we will give this thread a little longer here before to budget travel [hat off] |
Originally Posted by uk1
(Post 12618283)
Oh no he's not ......... as your point proves his general point is that in spite of some people's comments people that fly Ryan like it so much they do so repeatedly.
If you're going to multiple-count, then a hell of a lot more than 64 million people watched the BBC last year (and likely Panorama for that matter). If you're going to single-count, then a hell of a lot fewer than 64 million people flew Ryanair last year. Either way, he is wrong.
Originally Posted by uk1
(Post 12618283)
We all owe him a lot.
Originally Posted by uk1
(Post 12618283)
I've never flown with them but admire their success. They must be doing something right, but they are not fro me. But they have helped me by creating an industry that is eve more mindful of value. His big issue will be if ever (g*d forbid) there is an incident. This could quickly bring the airline down as the issue will be either a mechanical / maintenenace issue or a human error and either way the scrutiny of his money saving programmes will be very close and highly judgemental.
Originally Posted by uk1
(Post 12618283)
Just because he can be irritating we shouldn't misjudge his acuman or the success of his product.^
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' Panorama fails to ‘expose’ Ryanair'
Last night’s BBC 1 Panorama investigation failed to expose much new on the budget airline giant’s successful business model, according to an expert. Janet Titterton, business planning director at ancillary revenue specialist Collinson Latitude, said the programme provided “little new information” about the Irish carrier’s unprecedented success ... “Ryanair’s model succeeds as it remains true to a low cost carrier business strategy, pushing its 'best price' positioning. “Conversely, competitors that have for years promised superior service will face the disdain of their passengers if they suddenly remove the add-on elements that their customers have come to expect as part of the flight,” she warned ... Titterton added: “It’s too simple to suggest that the Ryanair model is wicked. More to the point is the reality that brands survive when their priority is to build long-term customer relationships – not short-term profits.” |
Originally Posted by Roger
(Post 12618532)
He probably figured that drew the punters back rather more effectively than the rather showy, but anonymous, chorus dancers dressed in sequins. |
Originally Posted by ajax
(Post 12618483)
He most certainly is incorrect. My original post was about the fact that he said "64 million people flew Ryanair last year - that more than watched Panorama and more than watched the BBC."
If you're going to multiple-count, then a hell of a lot more than 64 million people watched the BBC last year (and likely Panorama for that matter). If you're going to single-count, then a hell of a lot fewer than 64 million people flew Ryanair last year. Yes ... but when pedants have to slice the salami so much that they miss the bigger argument ... then they have effectively lost the argument. OK! .............. he was technically exageretaing ..... you're right .... hands up........ But, comparing an activity that 99% of the UK population do every night with the limited options that they have (turn the 'telly on and watch and largely choose between BBC1, 2 and ITV)) compared with the numbers that take flights then I'm afraid you're working a touch too hard to win your argument. Ryan is more popular amongst flying customer than the BBC is amongst viewing customers .... and with the BBC we go to prison if we don't pay the fare. MOL wins this argument IMHO. |
It really was a fairly lacklustre expose on Ryanair and MOL.
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Why hate them?
Hate's a strong word. I flew them once and found the service poor and the check-in staff at STN rude.
What's evident is that FR as a company and MOL in particular revel, they delight in treating their customers as poorly as possible. They believe because the prices are low, they have no need to provide any recognisable level of customer service. If you don't like it then you can go elsewhere. I don't, so I do. As a point of principle, I do anything I can not to give him my money. I'll give it to anyone I can but FR. Six and half years after that one experience and they're yet to see another farthing from me. I can't think of another commercial enterprise, other than the Daily Mail, that I feel that way about, that I feel so strong an aversion to that I will do practically anything in order not to give them money. |
It seems FTers don't generally use Ryanair very often, if at all. Just for information: 134 sectors so far this year, of which 26 with Ryanair and (for comparison) 43 with bmi, 10 with BA. I also spent two years commuting weekly from PIK to STN with FR.
Ryanair are: reliable & cheap. They are not: a full-service airline. Up to, say, 75~90 minutes I would prefer FR to BA or BD. Why? 1. Price. Don't sweat the small stuff of how they charge - look at the real price. At least nine times out of ten, it will be cheaper to fly FR 2. Food. I don't want a small, foil tin of slop put in front of me called "traditional breakfast", I don't need a nasty sandwich. I like to just buy what I fancy eating - a sarnie, a choccy bar, whatever. I don't mind being stiffed on the price because I saved on the ticket price. £100 is a lot of money for BA or BD food (and that's in economy) 3. Reliability. FR are VERY reliable (mainly because they don't use busy airports like LHR?) 4. Seating. For £3 I get priority boarding. That gets me an aisle seat at or very near the front of the plane Perhaps it's just confidence - I don't need an ageing trolly-dolly simpering at me to feel worthwhile :) |
It occurs to me that it's easy to be sniffy about FR when you're spending shareholder money rather your own...
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Originally Posted by knifeandfork
(Post 12620227)
What's evident is that FR as a company and MOL in particular revel, they delight in treating their customers as poorly as possible. They believe because the prices are low, they have no need to provide any recognisable level of customer service. If you don't like it then you can go elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by knifeandfork
(Post 12620227)
They believe because the prices are low, they have no need to provide any recognisable level of customer service.
'We are a low cost airline' always seems to be the excuse but I do not believe it is valid.
Originally Posted by knifeandfork
(Post 12620227)
If you don't like it then you can go elsewhere.
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Perhaps many are missing at least one point.
The reason why most companies experience customer disatisfaction is a combination of poor performance and advertising induced inflated expectations. MOL is genuinely telling customers that his prodcut is cheap and so is the Customer Service. He basically says if you want CS go elsewhere. Ithink this approach is refreshingly honest. |
Here is an entertaining news release from the FR site (my emphasis):
Ryanair, Britain’s favourite airline, today (Tue 13th Oct) released 1.1million FREE seats after BBC Panorama screened its ‘hatchet job’ on Ryanair last evening in which it uncovered – nothing, nada, rien, diddly squat. Ryanair criticised Panorama for its refusal of Ryanair’s offer of a live or uncut pre-recorded interview with Michael O’Leary, but this refusal isn’t surprising given that Panorama had no real case or valid points which would stand up to interview. Last night Panorama made 11 false or misleading claims as follows: 1. Panorama featured check in problems at Stansted one weekend in August with no mention of the fact that on the other 32 weekends since web check-in was introduced Ryanair has seen no problems whatsoever at Stansted or the other 150 airports Ryanair operates from. 2. Panorama quoted a “Which” magazine survey which has no basis in reality whatsoever since “Which” continue to nominate British Airways as Britain’s favourite airline despite the fact that three times more passengers prefer Ryanair. 3. Panorama claimed that Ryanair charges £5 to all passengers for web check-in but omitted that more than half of Ryanair’s passengers avoid this fee by booking Ryanair’s promotional fares (which include free web check-in). 4. Panorama interviewed a ‘website usability expert’, who claimed that ryanair.com was designed to force passengers to buy Ryanair travel insurance. Panorama hid the fact that over 96% of Ryanair passengers decline travel insurance, which clearly confirms that this ‘website usability expert’ was clueless. 5. Panorama produced a ‘Professor of Corporate Reputation’ to suggest that ‘people feel cheated’ by Ryanair – which is clearly false when over 66 million passengers this year will choose to fly Ryanair because they feel cheated by BA’s and Easyjet’s high fares. 6. Panorama claimed that Ryanair’s 25 minute turnaround was a ‘record time’. This is false since Southwest Airlines in the US operates a 15 minute turnaround. 7. A Panorama actor claimed that cabin crew would not get a contract if they didn’t meet their targets at the end of the day or year. Totally false. 8. Panorama claimed that cabin crew pay £2,000 to train and qualify as cabin crew but conveniently omitted that these payments were not paid to Ryanair. 9. Another Panorama actor claimed Ryanair had ‘no respect or dignity for pilots or cabin crew’ – this is a false claim put about by the British Airways pilots’ union. Respect and dignity in Ryanair come in the form of high pay, rapid promotion and job security – unlike at BA where pilots are facing job cuts and pay cuts. 10. Panorama falsely claimed that no food or drinks are provided to cabin crew without pointing out that each pilot and cabin crew member receives a food allowance on every flight to pay for their own food and drinks. 11. Panorama claimed that “O’Leary is a bully” – this is clearly false when the whole world knows that O’Leary is a kind and gentle, caring and thoughtful, sensitive and saintly human being widely beloved by all Ryanair’s 6,500 people and its 66m passengers. To celebrate the total failure of BBC Panorama’s hatchet job, Ryanair has today released 1.1million free seats - 100,000 for each of the 11 above lies or false claims made by Panorama last night. Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary said, “Last night’s programme was more Bananarama than Panorama. The BBC had no case, no facts and no clue. The only benefit it provided to viewers was the 1.1million free seats Ryanair will give away as a result of its false claims. 66 million passengers know that flying Ryanair guarantees the lowest fares, the best punctuality, no check-in queues and the pleasure of joining the Michael O’Leary fan club. Ryanair’s 1.1million free seats, for travel in November and December, are now available on www.ryanair.com and we urge passengers to snap them up.” |
Originally Posted by Sixth Freedom
(Post 12622873)
... very low fares are available to a minority of passengers.
As has been shown time and time again BA is often cheaper or not much more expensive than FR. |
There's a game the BA execs play: Three men in a balloon. One has to go. This round has Walsh, O'Leary and Branson. So who does Walsh save? "O'Leary," he says. "Ten times out of ten. He's also done a lot more for the aviation industry." |
Well, we just got 2 of FR's 1m 0p seats to get the parents-in-law over in December.
We had to pay for the return, so total cost for 2 pax including 1 suitcase was €152. This covers everything inc the card fee. BA on the same route would have been at least double price and the FR airport is actually nearer to their house than the BA airport. That said, you also have to factor in a contribution to the FR emergency fund. Last year they cancelled the flight and we had to pay £300 to buy 2 one-ways on Easyjet for same day departure - a cost we would probably not have paid had they booked BA. However, they've done this flight about 15 times now and this was the only muck-up so far. |
Originally Posted by Sixth Freedom
(Post 12622873)
As has been shown time and time again BA is often cheaper or not much more expensive than FR.
But the like-it-or-not facts are:
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I've flown FR a couple of times years ago, before they started heaping on even more extra charges. Both return flights were on time and it was actually a pleasant experience....:eek:
However - They started messing about with the routes and schedules at PIK which meant some flights either left too early in the morning or arrived back too late at night. As it was impossible to get to or from PIK by public transport and given we only lived 15 minutes away from GLA that put paid to us using FR again. Great to use if you get a bargain or want a direct flight but I would definitely pay the extra 'insurance' to fly BA for peace of mind and the extra schedules if anything goes wrong. |
Originally Posted by ekys
(Post 12612409)
Are these the people who sue when they spill coffee on themselves because it was hot?
The lady who scalded herself did so with a cup of coffee heated to 180–190 °F (82–88 °C) which Mcdonalds continued to do despite over 700 reports of people being burned by over-heated coffee in the previous decade including settled claims for more than $500,000. It was not industry practice to serve coffee that hot (other establishments were shown to serve coffee less hot) rather it was a requirement dictated by McDonalds to their franchises, despite the accidents. She scalded herself badly (third-degree burns on 6% and lesser degree on 16% of her body) and stayed in hospital for 8 days while she had skin grafted. She requested $20,000 from McDonalds, having incurred $11,000 in medical costs. They offered her $800. Only then did she sue, asking for $90,000. The initial award of punitive damages of $2.7m was a surprise to all concerned, but was calculated as 2 days of sales of coffee revenues. It was excessive, clearly, and I question the merit of the argument that it was too hot (I don't think cool really works for brewing coffee) but hey, there you are. Oh, and I don't think anyone would spill coffee on them because it was hot :) |
Originally Posted by Roger
(Post 12623746)
Over 50% book promotional fares (with £0.00 check in fee), hardly a minority. In fact, it's a majority. :p Isn't the average FR fare around €37? Do keep up! :)
1. Whenever I have flown in Europe and checked the FR fares they have not been the promotional ones. 2. FR's APV may well be EUR 37 buy this does not necessarily mean that the overall cost is lower when factoring in bags, travel to out of the way airports etc... |
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)
The main benefit to BA and other non-FR flyers is that through competition Ryanair have drastically reduced the average fares (in real terms) paid by most economy passengers on many routes. Unfortunately it's a double-edged sword as this has been achieved at the detriment of employment terms and conditions for many BA staff and contributed to the cost-based "enhancements" that continue to impact premium and non-premium travellers. Basically, whilst O'Leary may not have started the race to the bottom, he's certainly the pace setter. |
Originally Posted by Raffles
(Post 12630343)
That said, you also have to factor in a contribution to the FR emergency fund. Last year they cancelled the flight and we had to pay £300 to buy 2 one-ways on Easyjet for same day departure
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I live 40 minutes from Frankfurt-Hahn and I refuse to fly Ryanair.
Why? Something goes wrong, they throw you under the bus, uh, plane... Fees for everything Cattle car seating Seats that don't recline Pay for everything on board No lounges Airports in the middle of nowhere The way I see it a good journey includes what happens at the airport and onboard the plane. |
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