Qantas refund the differnce?
 

I just booked a red eye special last week syd to bne, since the fairs have dropped this week to match virgins does qantas give credits for the differnce and if so how do you go about collecting?
Regards,
Robert

AFAIK, there is no mechanism for collection of price differences as a result of fares dropping. It is a gamble -- you loose if the fare drops after you buy it, but you win if you get in before it rises again. In any case, the N class (red-e's) are pretty good value anyway. Just get in fast if you see a bargain fare - they arn't there for long.

Hope you enjoy the trip in Oz.

when qantas raises the fare on your route, be sure to call and pay the difference ok?

That's kind of silly. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Some airlines do actually refund the difference. I usually fly Alaska Airlines and am not too familiar with Qantas. AS refunds the difference unless you are comparing to a web special. I've done it a few times when it was a significant amount.

You can arrange a cancellation then refund of a full fare (Y) ticket on most airlines including QF (and wait around 6 weeks to get the $$$ back). I thought we were discussing a red eye (sic) "red e-fare"??? which is an web only special. You can only get this fare (N class) via your keyboard. No frills, no refunds, use it or loose it..... You do, however, get free catering and free alcohol on board (if you pick the right flights).

AS refunds differences on fares besides "Web Specials". This includes other economy fares besides Y.

Anyway, I probably shouldn't have posted. I just thought it was a silly answer to someone's innocent question. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Red e deals are non changeable, refundable, no nothing.

Im afraid that your going to have to cop the fare rise on the chin.

Qantas actually called me and asked me to pay extras AFTER I have TICKETED, because their agents allegedly mis-calculated the fare when I made the payment. So just watch out.

Back to original, topic about refund. Never... don't bother. I once bought the last remaining L-class inventory, only to find the very next day, they have added a new flight and showing N9.... I asked for difference of $70 back, only being told that's not possible.

THey ARE changeable, but you need to upgrade to the next available fare bucket - O class or higher - AND pay the difference to that fare type - AND pay a $27.50 change fee.

Dave

Absolutely right Dave. I was thinking of the old N class rules.

Since we're on the subject of changeable fares....

My boyfriend just bought a ticket which says something about "red" in the fare description. The class is Q though. On the phone, they told me there is a $150 change fee plus applicable fare difference. Is this true? If he decides to change the return (after departure), and he finds Q availability he would only have to pay $150?

Thanks!

Sounds like an INT fare - change fees for DOM fares are only $27.50 per flight (and for the purposes of this rule, a "flight" may include two flights with a connection).

Dave

Indeed they are cancellable (but not refundable), as well - provided you pay the $27.50 fee + buy a more expensive ticket within 12 months.

The watchout for those who have experience with Virgin Blue cancellations - whilst I believe DJ will allow you use the credit as you deem fit over 12 months - QF require you to use it all in one hit - on a more expensive fare than originally paid (but not necessarily the same destination).

So if you cancel a $300 SYD-PER flight, you must use the credit to buy a fare worth more than $300. You can't use it for a $150 fare now and a $150 later (like you can on DJ).

Note, I am just going on what I was told over the phone by customer service - if anyone's experience differs let us know.

You also can't rebook on same day. However if you hold a $200 fare, and a $100 fare comes available on the same day - and you can be bothered - you can cancel the $200 fare & hold it in credit (minus change fee of $27.50) and on a totally separate booking book the $100 fare.

[This message has been edited by lokijuh (edited 10-19-2003).]

Discussion on this topic:

Fare went down what happens now?.

I just typed "fare change" into the FT search engine... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

OK Guys, thanks for the info. the reason I asked is UAL does refund the difference and I thought I might check on Qantas.
Moderator please close this posting.
thanks to all,
Robert

I still don't understand this (the "rebook on same day" bit).

I ran into this last month when in Australia. Going SYD-BNE, we got to the airport early (waaaay early) and wanted to switch to an earlier flight. 'OK' says the lady "let me look..... oh, this is a red e-deal ticket ... you can't change that on the day of flight."

"OK, so cancel that ticket and give me a credit for it, less the $27.50 cancel/change fee. Now sell me a ticket on this earlier flight (at whatever the cheapest price is) and apply that credit against it."

I'm obviously missing something in this whole equation. You can change a red e-deal ticket the day before flight (but not on the day of flight)for a $27.50 change fee. You can cancel the ticket anytime and get a credit, less a $27.50 cancellation fee. What's the difference?

tt7, they want to make sure they get LOTS of extra money out of you on day of travel.

Dave

I agree, this thread should be closed. We havn't strayed off topic ONCE, and that is just not on on the Qantas board. Any thread which stays on topic needs to be closed ASAP. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Dave

OK, thanks ..... but I still don't understand. Here's my problem -
1. Me - I'd like to change this ticket please to an earlier flight today. I'll pay the $27.50 change fee plus whatever the fare difference is between what this ticket cost and the cheapest available ticket on the flight I'd like to go on.
2. QF - you can't. You cannot change that ticket on the day of flight.
3. Me - OK. In that case, I'd like to cancel this ticket please and receive a credit for what I paid for it, less a $27.50 cancellation fee.
4. QF. OK, here you go....This credit is good for 12 months (presumably?) and can be used to (part) pay for another QF ticket.
5. Me. Thanks very much. Now I'd like to purchase a ticket on this flight today please - what ever is the cheapest available.
6. QF. That will be $xxx please for this new ticket.
7. Me. Fine. I'd like to apply this credit you just gave me against the cost of the ticket. Here's my credit card for the balance.
*****
What am I missing? The end result is the same....

No it wouldn't. You've paid the $27.50 cancellation fee + purchased a fare in a higher class (albeit on your preferred flight). QF wins, you win.

We do things differently Down Under. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I thought the red e-fare rules said "Cancellation (on or before day of travel), "loss of fare". Changes are, however, OK and subject to a $33 fee and used as credit for a higher value fare...

This "loss of fare for cancellation" rule stops you cancelling the red e-deal fare on check-in. Not a surprising restriction given the price of the ticket. It was worse some months ago, you couldn't make ANY chanes AT ALL to the red e-deals once ticketed.

You were obviously missing an obstinate customer service agent. I tried that trick (ie cancelling & using the credit etc) and was told you can't use the credit for travel on the same day. Aaagh!!!

Yep, you sure do!

In the U.S. (on AA), they would have been more than happy to charge me $100 (the standard change fee here - about A$150) plus the fare difference. QF was a perfunctory "no - you can't change".

All QF got for that approach was two OW emerald fliers who weren't exactly impressed with the level of "service" provided and who, along with the QF/QC member they were travelling with, spent about 7 hours sitting in the QC, using the conference rooms and eating and drinking whatever was on offer.

Depending on what the fare difference was, we might - or might not - have changed. However, refusing to even discuss it (or setting your fare rules so it can't be done) strikes me as a pretty dumb way to run an airline.

I've now dug back to find the paperwork for these tickets - and I stand (partially) corrected. You can't change it on the day of flight or cancel it - if you want to cancel it, you have to do it at least the day before.

Paying the change fee and the fare difference is one thing - but just refusing to make a change - at any price - seems a bit dumb to me. Admittedly, we could have simply 'abandoned' our existing ticket and bought a new one ... but forcing us to do that ensured we didn't do it .... and, instead, we simply ate and drank what the QC had to offer for an extende period. Overall, a "lose/lose" situation, rather than a "win/win".

QF has commercial reasons for its change policy on the "red-e-deals". And the fare conditions are very clearly printed when you book the fare.

The bottom line is, well, the bottom line. QF remains one of the world's most profitable airlines, and having draconian policies on changing fares is a good revenue protection mechanism.

As to your solution, being to drink the QP out of coffee and beer, that's not such a good way to protect the revenue. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I would bet that the vast majority of pax buying red e-deals would not be able to use the QC, I mean QP. On an individual anecdotal basis, one pax or group might eat and drink their way through an awful lot in seven hours. But the financial effect of fare rules like this is obtained through the general market discipline imposed, and not necessarily what swings and roundabouts operate for one individual privileged pax. Most of the market buying these fares just won't bother coming to the airport until it's time for their non-changeable non-refundable flight, and QF gets the general effect it wants.

Which are .... what, exactly?

Not to belabour the point (which I am, I know...) but I'm still struggling to understand the logic of QF's approach.

I fully understand the notion of buying a 'cheap' ticket that has -
(a)an advance purchase requirement
(b)is nonrefundable
(c)requires a change fee if you change it
(d)requires you to pay the fare difference between what you originally paid and whatever fare is now available.

To this QF has now added -
(e) and if you change it or cancel it on the day of flight, we won't give you any credit for it (though if you do it before the day of flight, we will).

This clearly just adds one more way to make the customer pay (which is fair enough). However, what's the logic of allowing changes prior to the day of departure but not on the day of departure? Why not simply say "no refund, no changes, no credit - no matter when you change". How does QF benefit from not allowing a change on the day of departure that would be allowed if made the day before?

The logic lies in a fare structure which tries to find the maximum price that the passenger is willing to pay for various features, including flexibility. Business travellers are prepared to pay more for flexibility because of why they're travelling.

So how do you identify them and make sure that the pony up the extra? By making the cheap tickets inflexible at precisely the time that the business traveller most wants flexibility - ie on the day of travel itself. That's the time when people are turning up early at airports because their meetings have gone short, or late when they've overrun. So they business traveller who doesn't want the risk of sitting around in the airport for many hours will pay extra for the ticket with the extra flexibility.

The leisure traveller, on the other hand, may have problems with their travel the month before, the week before, or even two or three days before - they've lost their job, the house has been broken into, the mother-in-law is sick, or whatever. They don't have an increasing need for flexibility the closer they get to flight time. So they will be more likely to be happy with the restriction, and be more prepared to pay the very lowest price they can find.

The real boon in these conditions is (IIRC) the move away from "travel or bust" conditions which are common for the cheapest tickets over here in Europe. No changes, no refunds. At any time. You fly on the flight you're booked on or you buy another ticket. Dead simple.

To add further to Globalisers comments, they are also a response to competitive pressure from Virgin Blue - which has similar conditions on their cheapest fares.

Globaliser, thank you for reiterating the reasons why I no longer pay for the cheap fares on most of my travel (business) but have gone to K as the minimum basis for my tickets....I had never articulated the reasons to myself.

And on the reasons for personal behaviour, you then add the "comfort" factor which is directly proportional to the length of the flight and is demonstrated by a greater desire for more space (ie upgrade to J or F).

Next factor is tolerance to discomfort - demonstrated by age (the older you get, the more quickly the "comfort factor" kicks in). Solved by avoiding kids, avoiding Y, avoiding Virgin, paying for better seat pitch and so on.

I'm sure a maths genius could make an equation out of this, but they are probably already working in "yield management".

Not sure I follow. A "response to competitive pressure from DJ"? You mean that DJ does it, so QF can also get away with doing it (because there's no real competition in the Australian domestic market)? Not sure I understand how this qualifies as "competitive pressure" ... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Another way to look at this is to consider the low fare paid for the Red e-deal as the change fee. You don't have to travel on the ticket purchased. You can always purchase another ticket on the day of travel in the lowest fare class available and just consider the cheap, inflexible fare already paid as the "fee".

I think Globaliser articulated the situation very well. I don't buy these fares for business travel since I like tyhe flexibility of change on the day of travel. But for a family holiday, I would have no hessitation buying these cheap inflexible fares.

You've have to look at the history ... the red e deals were "use it or lose it" (ie non refundable, non-changeable, no credit etc), nothing! In response to pressure from DJ, Qantas introduced the change/cancel/credit provisions up to the day prior to departure - which surely an improvement on before. As Globaliser clearly articulates QF charges a premium for those travellers who desire day of departure flexibility.

it's price discrimination in action.

i think the other reason they might be strict on cancelling is precisely that if they get into the habit of waiving the fare conditions, then people will learn that and not bother to buy the more expensive ones. if, otoh, they stick to their guns, then ppl tend to get the message they have to pay for the extra flexibility.

(kind of like why the argument "but if there's a free seat in F/J, an elite FF in Y should get it" -- if those people know they can get into J paying Y fares, no-one will want to pay for F/J)

the only time it's worth waiving is if the earlier flight is empty and the booked flight is full. then, the airline should take the money, put the pax on the earlier flight and sell the later seat to someone else. i think thadocta trumpets this strongly. i don't think this undercuts the rationale too much, provided it doesn't happen too routinely, as no-one who really wants/needs the flexibility will want to chance not getting it.

i think the new domestic fare brackets are well thought out, convenient for passengers (ie you only get for sure what you pay for, even if you might get lucky sometimes and get a bit more, but you can choose what you get) and sensible for QF.

i too prefer to buy K's, as i need that extra flexibility, but not so much as you get in Y (ie refund).

[This message has been edited by aura (edited 10-21-2003).]

Sort of. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Except at peak periods - Christmas Eve, etc. - the chances of reselling the seat at a couple of hours notice are negligible.

Where I argue - and it was our policy at the time that I worked for QF - is that it is better to have a body in the air rather than on the ground, particularly towards the end of the day.

Sure, someone showing up at 0530 for their 0900 flight should not be put on the 0600 flight just for convenience sake.

BUT towards the end of the day there is ALWAYS a chance that an aircraft will go U/S and there will be either no aircraft to replace it with OR the replacement will be smaller - Murphys Law at work.

So if someone booked on the full 2200 flight shows up in time for the less than full 2100 flight, it is in the interests of the carrier to get them out of there ASAP, since it is one less body to accommodate if you can't get them out that night.

Dave

Moderator, please close this link.
Regards,
Robert

huh? an interesting and almost consistently on topic discussion on the QF board,a nd you want it closed?

Mark

Why close it? we are having a very interesting discussion on the pros and cons of the way QF handle last minute changes. Sure, your original query might have been well and truely answered, but that is no reason to close the thread, as other issues have been raised, and they are still up in the air for discussion.

I quite like this thread, it has been able to articulate (via Globaliser) my thoughts on why QF do what they do. I think it should remain open.

Dave

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Moderator of the decidedly off-topic Qantas forum ...