Qantas flight attendant calls woman Miss instead of Dr. (PhD)
Sep 9, 2018, 1:39 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2007
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My first name starts with S, and I'm male. Many years ago it was common to include the title in the name on the ticket and just use an initial for the first name, at which point I would become "SURNAME/MRS".
Never caused any issue at the airport, but it did cause confusion over the phone at times when people were expecting Mrs Surname...
I can't help but include this...
Never caused any issue at the airport, but it did cause confusion over the phone at times when people were expecting Mrs Surname...
Sep 9, 2018, 1:56 pm
#47
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Posts: 154
No need for a personal attack (I am in fact neither a paid lobbyist nor a bully), Platy, and thanks for the data points. It just happens that outside of SQ, I haven't booked on those airlines you mention in a while and so have no recent personal experience with them. I'm glad to see it's available on some airlines; certainly not all. And the point remains that "Mr." is completely neutral in a way that "Ms." will never be.
Sep 9, 2018, 2:08 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Sep 9, 2018, 5:53 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
No need for a personal attack (I am in fact neither a paid lobbyist nor a bully), Platy, and thanks for the data points. It just happens that outside of SQ, I haven't booked on those airlines you mention in a while and so have no recent personal experience with them. I'm glad to see it's available on some airlines; certainly not all. And the point remains that "Mr." is completely neutral in a way that "Ms." will never be.
For clarity that wasn't intended as a personal attack - you misinterpret - the folk that I was referring to are those you perceive as shunning using the term MS because of supposed distasteful association were in my sights, not you! More of a general cry of exacberation at a world gone mad...(on a day when some seek to excuse bad sportsmanship in tennis as a sexist conspiracy and a local political leader here in Australia causes outrage by referring to his own wife as being "hot")...
FWIW SQ seems to have the most extensive list of titles in its booking engine (select "others" for an extraordinarily comprehensive list!).
In terms of the original theme on this thread - QF's options for title look rather pathetic by comparison with those of SQ - perhaps an indication that QF really isn't too concerned about the whole title game in the first place (?!)
Last edited by Platy; Sep 9, 2018 at 7:33 pm
Sep 9, 2018, 8:41 pm
#51
Join Date: Jan 2010
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In Vienna, we like to tell the story of the University professor whose secretary was told to return mail addressed as
Herrn
Prof. Dr. Riegler
as opposed to the correct
Herrn
Prof. Dr. Dr. Riegler
I've also seen this for someone with multiple doctorates.
Herrn
Dr. mult. Meyer
Of course, it can get more complicated if you are writing to a Graf.
Herrn
Prof. Dr. Paul Max Graf von Bogen
Sep 9, 2018, 8:54 pm
#52
Join Date: May 2003
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Sep 10, 2018, 1:53 am
#55
Join Date: Nov 2012
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The real problem is that no neutral form of address exists for women the way it does for men. "Mr." says nothing about age or marital status. In English, there is only "Miss" (usually connoting young, unmarried) or "Mrs" (connoting married-to-Surname). For those of you claiming the passenger was pedantic to insist on the title "Dr.", it simply may have been a strategy to avoid the Miss/Mrs. dichotomy (present also in many other languages, French and German, for example). In English the alternative "Ms." was supposed to fix the Miss/Mrs. problem, but even many women these days find Ms. smacks of a brand of unpalatable feminism. People in the travel and other service industries are trained to call most women "Miss" (at least in English), and that seems to rankle some or many women.
So... some sympathy out there for the Miss Dr. PhD.
So... some sympathy out there for the Miss Dr. PhD.
Sep 10, 2018, 2:08 am
#56
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
For clarity that wasn't intended as a personal attack - you misinterpret - the folk that I was referring to are those you perceive as shunning using the term MS because of supposed distasteful association were in my sights, not you! More of a general cry of exacberation at a world gone mad...(on a day when some seek to excuse bad sportsmanship in tennis as a sexist conspiracy and a local political leader here in Australia causes outrage by referring to his own wife as being "hot")...
FWIW SQ seems to have the most extensive list of titles in its booking engine (select "others" for an extraordinarily comprehensive list!).
In terms of the original theme on this thread - QF's options for title look rather pathetic by comparison with those of SQ - perhaps an indication that QF really isn't too concerned about the whole title game in the first place (?!)
FWIW SQ seems to have the most extensive list of titles in its booking engine (select "others" for an extraordinarily comprehensive list!).
In terms of the original theme on this thread - QF's options for title look rather pathetic by comparison with those of SQ - perhaps an indication that QF really isn't too concerned about the whole title game in the first place (?!)
must say that as a female...ms may well have started out with noble intentions. However it has (in my non-PhD level research experience) never gained much acceptance in the mainstream, being as it is preferred by the kind of mad feminists that get upset about ridiculous things and seek to bring the entire gender down to their idiotic lowest common denominator of continual victimhood
as such, while I don’t get upset when “ms” is auto selected for me as a title, or when I am referred to as ms, I would never voluntarily select it for myself as I don’t want to mark myself out as “one of those kind of people”
Sep 10, 2018, 2:13 am
#57
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The real problem is that no neutral form of address exists for women the way it does for men. "Mr." says nothing about age or marital status. In English, there is only "Miss" (usually connoting young, unmarried) or "Mrs" (connoting married-to-Surname). For those of you claiming the passenger was pedantic to insist on the title "Dr.", it simply may have been a strategy to avoid the Miss/Mrs. dichotomy (present also in many other languages, French and German, for example). In English the alternative "Ms." was supposed to fix the Miss/Mrs. problem, but even many women these days find Ms. smacks of a brand of unpalatable feminism. People in the travel and other service industries are trained to call most women "Miss" (at least in English), and that seems to rankle some or many women.
So... some sympathy out there for the Miss Dr. PhD.
So... some sympathy out there for the Miss Dr. PhD.
Sep 12, 2018, 12:24 am
#58
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Do Fräulein ever become offended if called Frau? I've heard of women in the USA being upset "Ma'am" is used instead of "Miss"