Besides the constitutional issues this raises, how does this enhance security anywhere but the airport? Instead of blowing up the car at the airport, a terrorist will now head to the local mall on a busy Saturday or a concert venue or the big convention center holding the annual conference of some large group.

That is what drives me nuts about security these days. We only focus on the airports, as though they are the only venues in which terror can be triggered.

The purpose of my trip is nobody's business. No one's. It is irrelevant to security and the answer does nothing to enhance that security.

As for where I packed my bags and if they were with me at all times, didn't we discontinue that a while back. It was meaningless. No one is going to say, "Oh, I left my bags unattended for an hour while I had a bite to eat and used the bathroom." They know that means they won't make their flight. Pointless questions.

Why does the U.S. need to verify that I am leaving the country? How does that enhance security at all? What threat am I to the U.S. if I am leaving the country?

Why? Were they not competent enough in the first screening? And, if not, why is anyone allowed in the sterile area?

Again, was their a competence gap in the initial screening of baggage? If the TSA or baggage handlers slipped something into my bag, there is a bigger problem that needs to be addressed than holding up my baggage.

My God. You are kidding, right? I am off the plane which has arrived safely and before I can continue to the shuttle or rental car area I have to be searched again because I might have had something slipped to me either in the sterile area of my departing airport or on a flight? That presumes that something got by the screeners.

What in the hell could possibly be slipped to me in flight or at the departing airport that I could not just as easily be handed or purchased once I left the airport after my flight?

Don't we have this already?

Wonderful. Now instead of showing up two hours before my 45 minute flight, I have to show up 3-4 hours to answer ridiculous questions and undergo "additional screening" so that people feel better about flying.

And that doesn't even account for the additional post flight screening I will need to endure under your plan.

My 45 minute trip from PHX to LAS has now turned into a four-plus hour ordeal.

No thanks.

What's the point by then? The only thing it would prevent would be someone who was transporting a bomb to blow up somewhere else. The person has already gotten off the plane and is landside.

And on at least one occasion, the screeners at TLV missed a gun:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/newss...-new-york.html

I'm certain the screeners try to find (and generally do find) guns and bombs and large knives/swords. ;)

"back then"? It still happens now, but on a even bigger scale.

I am sure that they missed them more than once. The screening process is much quicker and more cursory than in the US or Europe.

On the other hand, by the time you get to the screener, TLV is satisfied that it knows who you are and that you don't present a danger to the flight.

The security at TLV is identical for all airlines. On flights into Israel, that is not the case. Only Israeli-owned airlines (El Al, Arkia, Israir) have this kind of security for in-bound flights.

It basically works like this: You are questioned before your checked luggage is x-rayed. The questioning can take anywhere from 2 minutes to 2 hours, depending on a lot of things (your nationality, your behavior, the answers that you give, your age, etc).

For most Israelis, it is closer to the 2 minutes. For most foreigners, it is about 5 minutes. For someone who appears to be out of the ordinary (even in a positive manner) it will take longer.

Examples: A friend was flying FCO-TLV and she was a very unusual passenger for that flight. She was a black, female, American Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with NATO Intelligence credentials. Obviously, she does not fit the profile of a terrorist but she also was not your typical passenger. Before she was allowed to board, she was asked if anyone in Israel could vouch for her. She gave them my name and telephone number and they called me to verify that I knew her.

The same thing happened with a FTer. She was coming to Israel for a Meet that I had organized. Although American, she was flying in from Istanbul and El Al security found it strange that she would go to Israel for three days. Again, they called me to verify her identity.

When El Al is not completely satisfied with the passenger (and this does not happen very often) not only is the passenger searched but (as in the case Richard Reid, who later became the famed would-be shoe bomber) he has a security officer as his seatmate for the entire flight.

At TLV, after the questioning, your checked bags are x-rayed (in front of you) and, if there is any question about something inside of them, you are asked to open your bags yourself so that they can see the item.

You then check in, go through Passport Control, and then have your hand luggage x-rayed and go through the metal detector.

It probably would either do no good in plenty of places or even endanger security in other places.

Creating bottlenecks on the primary or exclusive passenger route to the airport is not an automatic recipe for security -- it is actually bad for security in plenty of places as it creates a ripe target for those intent on destroying lives, economic damage and getting some much-craved media attention at least in the local target market.

I guess that won't be doing a 2 or 3 day stopover in Israel. You can have your rules and I respect them but if I can't visit just because I want to, I won't.

The difference is a kangaroo court now exists so that the government can give the appearance of due process.

At the time it happened to me, DC police officers regularly swept certain neighborhoods and confiscated anything of value that could possibly be used to buy drugs: cash, jewelry, watches, gold chains, if it wasn't nailed down, it went in a cop's pocket. Since you could buy a rock for $10, you were only safe if you had less than that on your person.

Receipts? Don't make me laugh. I actually demanded one for my $30. One cop drew his PRB-34, the other pulled his service weapon. It was made clear that if I caused trouble, I'd be in the prison ward of DC General.

At least they left me my MetroCard. Just one reason out of about two dozen why I have no respect for the Officer Cartman wannabees.

+1

I don't do "interrogation upon departure". My tourist dollars will be spent elsewhere.

Hmm
 

It's not often I say this but offering up Isreali security as a role model for the TSA to aspire to an idiotic suggestion from an OP who needs to get out in the real world and see how civil liberties are being eroded in the name of 'security'. I have been through the Israeli experience 5 times, and whilst it might be OK for Israel, we are not quite at at the same security crisis that they are....

I don't accept that as a rationale for the way they do things there, nor will I accept it for the US under any circumstances.

Just two days ago, 26 Palestinians (including an 11 year old girl) were killed and over 160 wounded when Hamas attacked a mosque whose leaders did not consider Hamas to be Islamic enough.

In other words, we tend to live in a rather dangerous neighborhood, and when you do, you don't leave your door open at night -- even if you like fresh air.

As crushed as we are by your disapproval, I do tend to believe that we prefer to live.

Except DHS/CBP already does require exit visas for US Nationals leaving the US via private planes. And Napolitano has stated to the news media that she is planning to do the same to private boats as well.

In the current incarnation the airlines use a system called APIS which the TSA compares to its "red list" er ahh I mean no fly list. Aw shucks lets just rename it to something we can all understand, and call it the McCarthy list.

As of May anyone leaving the US via the family Cessna must now file a record with the CPB using the eAPIS internet system, complete with PP precise dates of departure and returns (via internet, which doesn't exist on remote Canadian fishing lakes accessable only via seaplanes), and wait until CBP grants permission in the form of an email returned to you saying your wife, 12 year old and 8 year olds are not on the McCarthy list and you can fly. Their assinine rationale: You never know when your wife might be on the no fly list.

If only Kruschev and Stalin could see us now.

Another fine example of false choices, in the finest sense of the dramatic. Death or harassment? :rolleyes:

I'll pass, thanks.

Hamas -- as it has done before -- went after Al-Qaeda-supporters and took them out. Unsurprisingly, they too accept "collateral damage" that arises out of operations they conduct in the name of security. They too don't like leaving their doors open at night even as they too probably don't mind fresh air.

Fortunately the US isn't Israel or the Palestinian Territories and so I say skip the wholesale import of practices that are part and parcel of the lives of people there.