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Originally Posted by Trollkiller
(Post 11724651)
So how many terrorists has the BDO program caught?
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Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 11724639)
Oh yeah, I know what you're going to say: a terrorist wouldn't exhibit those tell-tale signs. Logic would suggest that drug smugglers are more common than terrorists and should be more proficient at smuggling things than a terrorist. Yet BDOs spot drug smugglers with relative ease.
I wonder if a BDO would spot a Red Team member. Interesting to find out. My money is that a BDO would. If the BDO program was a grand as is pretended we would not hear stories of TSOs stealing for OVER a year or line crews smuggling dope for as long. |
If the TSA was serious about the BDO program, they'd be hiring people with doctorates in psychology who'd been through the criminal profiling division of the FBI at Quantico. As it is, they're throwing people out there who have less psych and profiling training as a college freshman who just took Psych 101.
As it stands, given the above advocacy for the fact that the BDO program has caught so many drug traffickers, it's more a way for the TSA to continue their mission creep than anything. |
Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 11724670)
Actually, they can tell when it's just a person being nervous for some other non-nefarious reason. The BDOs do have a very high detection rate in terms of someone actually smuggling something or attempting to hide something from discovery. You don't have to believe it; in the end, it doesn't make any difference if you do.
The airport police have a high respect for the BDO program. They know that when a BDO initiates, there's a very high probability that the passenger is guilty of something. Again, as I've pointed out, while the BDO program is highly effective, so far it's high catch rate has been drug smugglers. Why don't you answer this question: who would you think should be more proficient at smuggling something---a terrorist or a drug courier? I am enjoying the back and forth but I need to get some zzzzzzz. Good night. |
Originally Posted by tsadude1
(Post 11724096)
I find your comments rather interesting. BDOs dont require millions of dollars in equipment to operate unlike the checkpoint. BDOs are mobile and forward deployed. BDOs dont require constant supervision and actually have had successes http://www.orlandosentinel.com/commu...,3978505.story. I get a real chuckle of of all the behavioral expertswho always state something like "ohh, they only have caught druggies and felons and blah blah blah. Could some of you experts give us BDOs a clear defining difference between a terrorist and a person hauling drugs? Probably not because you haven't been in this position and spent endless hours and years wathching people. Whats the problem if a person displaying behaviors turns out to be a wanted felon trying to leave or a dealer? Are you guys advocating that these dirtbags should be given a free pass? Please give me a real answer and not one of these F'd up "your only supposed to look for terrorist" answers. So lets hear it, how does a terrorist behave?
Your job is ONLY to ensure that people and luggage contents entering the sterile area of an airport, and thus flying on a COMMERCIAL airliner operating as a public carrier do not represent a threat to the safe operation of said airliner. Period. Case Closed. I fail to understand why so many TSA employees don't understand this. There may be a federal law which requires federal employees to report illegal activity. Fine. However, the only application of that law should be the definitive discovery of illegal activity as part of a direct consensual search of their person or bags - not going on a behavioral analysis mission to determine if the person should be further searched to find their illegal activity unless, and ONLY unless, there is concern DIRECTLY related to aviation security. Drug dealers, illegal immigrants, etc., are not threats to aviation security. How about your organization and coworkers get your core mission test results up above a 20% pass before self-anointing yourselves the "FBI of the Airport" and getting involved in things which are not of your damn business. |
Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 11724639)
When a BDO detects someone exhibiting suspicious behavior, that BDO does not know if the person is smuggling drugs or an IED. The BDO has already ruled out certain other factors such as routine nervousness that some travelers experience. It's not until the BDO actually follows up that he or she is able to determine the source for the behavior. The majority of times, it's someone smuggling drugs.
Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 11724639)
I wonder if a BDO would spot a Red Team member. Interesting to find out. My money is that a BDO would.
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Originally Posted by tsadude1
(Post 11724096)
I find your comments rather interesting. BDOs dont require millions of dollars in equipment to operate unlike the checkpoint. BDOs are mobile and forward deployed. BDOs dont require constant supervision and actually have had successes http://www.orlandosentinel.com/commu...,3978505.story. I get a real chuckle of of all the behavioral expertswho always state something like "ohh, they only have caught druggies and felons and blah blah blah. Could some of you experts give us BDOs a clear defining difference between a terrorist and a person hauling drugs? Probably not because you haven't been in this position and spent endless hours and years wathching people. Whats the problem if a person displaying behaviors turns out to be a wanted felon trying to leave or a dealer? Are you guys advocating that these dirtbags should be given a free pass? Please give me a real answer and not one of these F'd up "your only supposed to look for terrorist" answers. So lets hear it, how does a terrorist behave?
You are not LEOs. Your job is not to apprehend criminals, but to prevent threats to aviation. Already, you have made flying so unpleasant that many people avoid it. You continually trespass on constitutional rights, and harass millions of people every year without making any significant contribution to aviation safety. Leave catching crooks to the professionals, i.e. trained law enforcement officers. Focus on your mission statement and, instead of wasting money on such unrelated endeavors as catching crooks (for which you are completely unqualified) and, instead, do things like screening all air cargo and U.S. mail placed aboard commercial aircraft -- that alone would increase airline safety far more than placing 10,000 BDOs in the terminal. |
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 11724689)
YES you are suppose to give them a free pass, because IT'S NOT YOUR JOB to find drug couriers, illegal immigrants or other problem people who pose no threat to aviation security. YOU ARE NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT - remember that.
Your job is ONLY to ensure that people and luggage contents entering the sterile area of an airport, and thus flying on a COMMERCIAL airliner operating as a public carrier do not represent a threat to the safe operation of said airliner. Period. Case Closed. I fail to understand why so many TSA employees don't understand this. There may be a federal law which requires federal employees to report illegal activity. Fine. However, the only application of that law should be the definitive discovery of illegal activity as part of a direct consensual search of their person or bags - not going on a behavioral analysis mission to determine if the person should be further searched to find their illegal activity unless, and ONLY unless, there is concern DIRECTLY related to aviation security. Drug dealers, illegal immigrants, etc., are not threats to aviation security. How about your organization and coworkers get your core mission test results up above a 20% pass before self-anointing yourselves the "FBI of the Airport" and getting involved in things which are not of your damn business. |
Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 11724644)
Ahh. I hope so. But you and I have been in this organization long enough to understand that such logic isn't always applied. ;)
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Originally Posted by tsadude1
(Post 11724739)
How's that anti-TSA legislative thing working out?
You wanted a clear, concise answer to your question, you got one. Why not tell us how and why you personally feel it's both appropriate and necessary to deviate from your assigned mission in order to catch people who have absolutely nothing to do with your agency's scope of authority? |
Originally Posted by Bart
(Post 11724639)
LOL. <giggle> <giggle> <snicker> <snicker> <snort!>
Uh, ok. If you say so. When a BDO detects someone exhibiting suspicious behavior, that BDO does not know if the person is smuggling drugs or an IED. The BDO has already ruled out certain other factors such as routine nervousness that some travelers experience. It's not until the BDO actually follows up that he or she is able to determine the source for the behavior. The majority of times, it's someone smuggling drugs. The success is that a BDO did confirm that there was a valid reason for passenger's suspicious behavior. The question you have to ask, assuming that you're truly interested in getting at the truth, is whether or not this methodology would also work against a terrorist standing in line. Oh yeah, I know what you're going to say: a terrorist wouldn't exhibit those tell-tale signs. Logic would suggest that drug smugglers are more common than terrorists and should be more proficient at smuggling things than a terrorist. Yet BDOs spot drug smugglers with relative ease. I wonder if a BDO would spot a Red Team member. Interesting to find out. My money is that a BDO would. They work next to these people, attend the same briefs and such. So out of the 10's of millions of people who travel in a years time how many terrorist has any TSA worker identified? Point to one successful prosecution. |
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