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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   TSA plans to replace the walk-through metal detect with MMW (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/944990-tsa-plans-replace-walk-through-metal-detect-mmw.html)

MKEbound Apr 24, 2009 7:50 am


Originally Posted by 4444 (Post 11636578)
dumb question. do these machines also detect metal or is it just visual? what would stop someone from hiding a shank where one would usually hide such an item?

All items. From the passport in a pocket, to the plastic shank in a bra. However, they don't scan the feet or INSIDE the body, therefor someone could still hid C4 up their butt! So you still have to take off your shoes, and a butt bomber could still do his dirty deed!

4444 Apr 24, 2009 7:52 am


Originally Posted by MKEbound (Post 11636629)
All items. From the passport in a pocket, to the plastic shank in a bra. However, they don't scan the feet or INSIDE the body, therefor someone could still hid C4 up their butt! So you still have to take off your shoes, and a butt bomber could still do his dirty deed!

that's what i thought. that is why the tsa is useless. if someone is determined enough to kill themselves for a cause then they sure as hell dont care about swallowing or "packing" some c4....

fbrown627 Apr 24, 2009 12:11 pm

Does anyone know what the rules are in European countries that utilize the machine? I know these machines are voluntary in the U.S., but what about those countries in the EU that use them?

BTW....a couple of people on another board wrote about going through the machines at AMS. They had no idea what they were. When I told them, they responded that they now felt sick about it.

We must get the word out...although I fear, most Americans would bark like a dog and play fetch with TSA if they said it would protect them from "terryrists."

BAHHHHHH!!!!!!

Mr. Gel-pack Apr 24, 2009 1:35 pm


Originally Posted by MKEbound (Post 11636629)
All items. From the passport in a pocket, to the plastic shank in a bra. However, they don't scan the feet or INSIDE the body, therefor someone could still hid C4 up their butt! So you still have to take off your shoes, and a butt bomber could still do his dirty deed!

With TSA's parallel "layers of security", you walk the small metal bits through the MMW, while your partner walks a wine rack of C4 through the WTMD+pat-down. They won't pat down the nipple-ring, so how much are they going to pat-down someone who won't trip any alarm?

And TSA will count these two parallel layers as "working together".

wr_schwab Apr 24, 2009 8:42 pm

I think the contents of this link sums it up the TSA. I'd embed it, but I'd risk an IP and TOS violation.

http://despair.com/government.html

Boggie Dog Apr 25, 2009 9:25 am


Originally Posted by fbrown627 (Post 11638169)
Does anyone know what the rules are in European countries that utilize the machine? I know these machines are voluntary in the U.S., but what about those countries in the EU that use them?

BTW....a couple of people on another board wrote about going through the machines at AMS. They had no idea what they were. When I told them, they responded that they now felt sick about it.

We must get the word out...although I fear, most Americans would bark like a dog and play fetch with TSA if they said it would protect them from "terryrists."

BAHHHHHH!!!!!!

If a person sees a MMW while moving through the TSA Cattle Line just turn to the nearest person stating out loud clearly what the machines does and the fact that one can opt to not be screened by MMW.

Be sure those close to you also hear your statement.

If 4 or 5 people hear you good, if they start talking amoung themselves even better.

One step forward begins a long trip.

vc8 Apr 25, 2009 3:14 pm


Originally Posted by wr_schwab (Post 11640513)
I think the contents of this link sums it up the TSA. I'd embed it, but I'd risk an IP and TOS violation.

http://despair.com/government.html


This one too:
http://despair.com/incompetence.html

TiggBro Apr 26, 2009 2:00 am

What about MMV and pacemakers?
 
Does anyone know if the MMV runs the same risk of interfering with pacemakers and defibrillators that the magnetometers do? In the past few months since surgery I've had about a dozen patdowns, and they sure range from cursory to quite the groping. The last thing I'd want on top of all that is a virtual strip-search.

Thanks for your help.

PhlyingRPh Apr 26, 2009 3:30 am

Does anyone know if there is any type of device that would render this monstrosity inoperable? Surely there is a way to damage these machines!

msimons Apr 26, 2009 11:15 am


Originally Posted by TiggBro (Post 11645401)
Does anyone know if the MMV runs the same risk of interfering with pacemakers and defibrillators that the magnetometers do? In the past few months since surgery I've had about a dozen patdowns, and they sure range from cursory to quite the groping. The last thing I'd want on top of all that is a virtual strip-search.

Thanks for your help.

Err on the side of safety, and DON'T go thru them.
I thought doctors use to give their patients a little card declaring the patient shouldn't be exposed to radiation,etc.

Contact your doc and find out, and also loudly complain why he didn't go over this with you prior to surgery.

msimons Apr 26, 2009 11:27 am

A MMW I wouldn't mind
 
I object to most of these primarily on subjecting us to unnecessary radiation, regardless of how low.

However there are totally passive ones being made, and actually are faster than the active ones.

Could just see TSA buying a bunch of active ones, then scrapping them for newer ones shortly thereafter.

http://www.rapiscansystems.com/rapis...escan-200.html
Theres a pic of imaging in the datasheet link.

Bart Apr 26, 2009 12:29 pm

*****

AngryMiller Apr 26, 2009 1:00 pm


Originally Posted by Bart (Post 11647091)
Not trying to change your mind; it's apparently already made up.

You are exposed to more radiation inside a passenger cabin during a 30-minute flight at cruising altitude than you are being scanned by these passive backscatter machines.

As I understand it, passengers will have an option to either pass through the traditional walk-thru metal detector or through one of these backscatter machines. And, as always, you can choose a full-body pat-down instead of going through either one of these machines.

But no matter what TSA does, there will always be a number of discontented individuals who find fault with any attempt to accommodate passenger needs or concerns.

Radiation? Ionizing or non-ionizing? Ionizing radiation is the stuff you get from cobalt-60. Non-ionizing is what you get from radio stations and power lines. The MMW machines all use non-ionizing radiation at frequencies between 30gHz to 94gHz. The MMW machines using background radiation emit nothing but instead use the naturally occurring background radiation that surrounds us all. IOW no escaping it.

As to "discontented individuals who find fault" with TSA and the security theater, please tell me if we should blindly put our faith in TSA to protect us and our belongings?

Bart Apr 26, 2009 1:19 pm

*****

AngryMiller Apr 26, 2009 1:32 pm


Originally Posted by Bart (Post 11647274)
I'm not the one who said that these machines expose passengers to additional radiation. Check fire, pilgrim.


You are exposed to more radiation inside a passenger cabin during a 30-minute flight at cruising altitude than you are being scanned by these passive backscatter machines.
You brought up the radiation bit, hoss. Please don't attempt to be patronizing with me.



Passengers initially complained about all the physical contact required during the hand-wanding procedure. TSA revised its procedures by modifying how certain pat-downs were conducted; allowing more attempts at the walk-thru metal detector to give passengers more opportunities to successfully divest anything metallic that may trigger an alarm; and now has come up with a technology that virtually eliminates any need to physically pat down a passenger. Still, there are those who are determined to whine about one thing or another no matter what TSA does.

By the way, this technology was prompted by customer complaints.
Customer complaints were due to prison guard like pat downs. I've gotten the full genitals cupping during more than one pat down by TSA and didn't care for it in the least bit, hoss. I was the guy that a TSO at a gate check wanted to remove a fresh surgical dressing because it alarmed on the nearly 30 staples on the 12" incision even though the staples were visible.



Yes. You are discontented no matter what TSA does to accommodate you. Talking about you specifically, not you in general. Wear it, son.
Son? Nope, never knew you and patronizing is generally considered rude. As to security, hoss, I've seen security in Europe, Canada, and the US and consider the way passengers are dealt with in the US to be both borderline criminal and overly invasive. Improve luggage security and treat the passengers like they are decent human beings and I will probably go away.


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