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TSA at fixed based operators (FBOs)
I've heard of it, but never seen it. What exactly would they do?
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Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget
(Post 11477007)
I've heard of it, but never seen it. What exactly would they do?
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Originally Posted by halls120
(Post 11477323)
Waste scarce federal resources while adding nothing substantive to our overall security posture, of course.
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Attempt to exert authority they do not have while on property which falls outside their jurisdiction.
Shame on any FBO operator who doesn't tell the TSA crew to go take a hike. Likewise, shame on any private operator who allows themselves to be subjected to, or otherwise restricted by a screening prior to accessing their own aircraft. |
Well, It's certinaly mission creep, but so far the ruse has been to use part 121 (scheduled) airline service to try and limit access to the ramp, FBO and even private hangers and the smaller airports.
The folks over at AOPA are very worked up over this, even more so as the TSA are trying to do this under some sort of Secret Directive. Seriously, the TSA mission creep is getting very scary now, these guys are way outside their remit and no one seems to be able to stop them.... :td: - Tim |
Originally Posted by timfountain
(Post 11478588)
Well, It's certinaly mission creep, but so far the ruse has been to use part 121 (scheduled) airline service to try and limit access to the ramp, FBO and even private hangers and the smaller airports.
The folks over at AOPA are very worked up over this, even more so as the TSA are trying to do this under some sort of Secret Directive. Seriously, the TSA mission creep is getting very scary now, these guys are way outside their remit and no one seems to be able to stop them.... :td: - Tim |
This is the propbably the only time I will agree that this is really a stupid reg. I cant imagine the TSA even trying to enforce this. Places like Leadville are so way out there. How much $$$$ is going to be wasted on travel budget for compliance inspection?
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My definition is pretty easy - they are creating solutions to a problem that doesn't and has not ever existed. Hence it was not and should not be part of their mission.
- Tim |
Originally Posted by tsadude1
(Post 11479447)
This is the propbably the only time I will agree that this is really a stupid reg. I cant imagine the TSA even trying to enforce this. Places like Leadville are so way out there. How much $$$$ is going to be wasted on travel budget for compliance inspection?
It would really make my day when the TSA screener tries to disarm me from my lawfully carried firearm. I loved the part where the Melbourne Police Department airport division said they would not get involved in a private aircraft owner having a firearm outside of the sterile area. http://www.generalaviationnews.com/?p=5469&cpage=1 “A few months ago, the T-hangar tenants at MLB, where I keep my airplane (I have been in the same T-hangar for 25 years), were subjected to intense scrutiny by TSA. T-hangar tenants were frisked and our cars were searched, some people repeatedly in the same week,” he wrote. “Some TSA agents even opened cars without permission (and no warrant). All of the aircraft in the T-hangars are singles and light twins, no heavy metal. All of the T-hangar tenants are badged by the airport police, and presumably checked out before the photo badge is issued.” The MLB pilots association asked for, and got, a meeting with TSA, Trachtman wrote. It was attended by the TSA director in charge at MLB as well as the region’s Assistant Federal Security Director of TSA, based in West Palm Beach. “At the meeting, we were told that the intense scrutiny we experienced for a period of several weeks was ‘training’ for the TSA agents,” Trachtman wrote, commenting: “If TSA agents are being specifically trained to scrutinize the little guys in general aviation, this confirms that they just don’t get it, and have no clue what the real security threats are.” The TSA officers then apologized for the actions of some agents and told the pilot group that their goal is “world class customer service.” “A contentious subject of discussion was bringing guns onto the airport,” Trachtman reported. “TSA’s stated position was that no firearms, weapons, or explosives are permitted anywhere on MLB property except for law enforcement officers and active military on official duty. One of our pilots is a champion skeet shooter, a medical doctor and one of the original Tuskegee Airmen, who travels to tournaments in his single engine airplane with his guns. He complained about the treatment he received from TSA agents.” Some of the MLB pilots have concealed weapon permits, Trachtman pointed out, and all of them comply with the laws concerning carriage of guns. They are unloaded and properly stored in a firearm carrying case, he said. “TSA was specifically asked if there is someone who can be given advance notice when a pilot travels with a gun. The answer was no. If TSA finds a gun, they will detain the pilot and call the airport police. Period. The airport chief of police was at our meeting, and stated that he is okay if the firearm is unloaded and properly stored. TSA stated they will still detain the pilot and call the airport police.” Trachtman summed up the meeting in one word: “Unbelievable.” GeneralAviationNews.com has been told that the TSA actions at Nashville and Melbourne were based on a TSA document called Playbook, which outlines TSA plans for random screenings at FBOs and hangars. Playbook is, apparently, a training exercise as the Melbourne pilots were told. NBAA raised concerns about Playbook before any of the events took place and at least one, scheduled for Bradley International Airport in Connecticut, was canceled, NBAA’s Carr said. I'm serious, it would be a good opportunity for your brethren to learn something. |
GA Security Sting An Error By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief AvWeb.com 2-6-09 The National Business Aviation Association says the Transportation Security Administration is rewriting a manual for field personnel after a surprise general aviation security operation delayed passengers and crew members in Nashville in late December and early January. Doug Carr, NBAA's VP of Safety, Security and Regulation, said TSA officials conducted bag searches and wanded passengers and crew headed for private aircraft and also checked FBO personnel in what appears to have been a misinterpretation by local TSA personnel of instructions in a classified security manual called the Playbook. Carr said NBAA has since discussed the operation with TSA headquarters and confirmed that this kind of activity "is not the direction they wanted to go regarding general aviation." He said he's been told a new Playbook is in the works that will address the issue but since the manual is secret, he can't know exactly what's in it. Carr said NBAA first heard of the Playbook late last year when the local TSA told officials at Bradley Airport in Hartford, Conn., about plans to step up GA security. NBAA stepped in at that time and the plans were dropped. However, the Nashville TSA headquarters obviously took something in the Playbook to mean that random security checks of private aircraft and FBOs was part of that plan and set up a table at Nashville Airport to carry them out. Although the incidents took place more than a month ago, word just got out last week. It spread quickly, however, and caused a lot of concern for some, since there has been a lot of discussion about the TSA and GA security recently with the five public hearings on the administration's Large Airplane Security Program. Carr said he doesn't think the two issues are linked or are part of an overall security plan for GA, although the timing might suggest that to some. |
Totally OT, but one of the best flights I was ever on was ORD-SMF when most of the pax were former Tuskegee airmen heading for a reunion. I learned so much on that flight and will never forget it.
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Originally Posted by halls120
(Post 11477323)
Waste scarce federal resources while adding nothing substantive to our overall security posture, of course.
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Originally Posted by knotyeagle
(Post 11480276)
Even better tsadude1. Give a call to your brethren at Melbourne (MLB). The Federal Security Director there says his screeners can actually detain an aircraft owner in the aircraft operating area (but outside of the sterile area for FAR part 121 aircraft) who has a lawfully carried firearm....
I wonder if those fools are harassing the students and staff at Florida Tech too. |
Originally Posted by knotyeagle
(Post 11480276)
Even better tsadude1. Give a call to your brethren at Melbourne (MLB). The Federal Security Director there says his screeners can actually detain an aircraft owner in the aircraft operating area (but outside of the sterile area for FAR part 121 aircraft) who has a lawfully carried firearm.
It would really make my day when the TSA screener tries to disarm me from my lawfully carried firearm. I loved the part where the Melbourne Police Department airport division said they would not get involved in a private aircraft owner having a firearm outside of the sterile area. <snip> Please tell me your brethren are being trained to try. I can be at Peter O'Knight (TPF) or Vandenburg (VDF) anytime when your Federal Security Director would like to know how to "play" operation playbook. Or even the proposed Large Aircraft Security Program, or even better the new security directive for airport operating areas. I'm serious, it would be a good opportunity for your brethren to learn something. |
Originally Posted by knotyeagle
(Post 11480276)
Some of the MLB pilots have concealed weapon permits, Trachtman pointed out, and all of them comply with the laws concerning carriage of guns. They are unloaded and properly stored in a firearm carrying case, he said.
“TSA was specifically asked if there is someone who can be given advance notice when a pilot travels with a gun. The answer was no. If TSA finds a gun, they will detain the pilot and call the airport police. Period. The airport chief of police was at our meeting, and stated that he is okay if the firearm is unloaded and properly stored. TSA stated they will still detain the pilot and call the airport police.” |
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