pmocek

Agreed. And there's no reason for someone to present his credentials (to "show ID") to a police officer at all unless he's driving on a public street and the officer requests proof that he is licensed to do so.

Unless you catch me out on public property, you won't. Whether I am licensed to drive on public property is none of your business when I'm on private property.

There are numerous good reasons not to fall into the pattern of showing our papers whenever someone requests that we do so. Furthermore, what, SgtScott31, is the risk of interaction with law enforcement to which you refer?

I'm curious why we would even waste law enforcement resources on arbitrating a dispute between two private entities such as this. If someone called the police about a disagreement with a customer over company policy, I hope the dispatcher would prioritize that call below just about everything else.

pmocek

I disagree. It is important for the business to ensure that they do not serve alcohol to underage people. Identification is an unfortunate side-effect of convincing staff of one's age.

I suspect any thinking person who values privacy and is willing to flex his rights so that he will not lose them would agree.

p1cunnin

There's only a couple of things that would even begin to make sense there... one, they don't want non-rental cars in there (people will sometimes want to drop someone off to pick up a car, so they drive their personal car into the rental lot -- might be a pain in the neck to get a personal car out of the rental garage); two, since it is in the garage, there may be an area where someone can leave a car and run into the terminal to pick someone up (thereby avoiding the parking fee), then go to the exit gate claiming that they made a wrong turn. The latter item arguably solves for the abandoned car bomb issue, I suppose.

The whole exercise sounds like someone's idea of yet another bit of Potemkin theatre. Unless you are validating that the rental agreements are legit before allowing entry AND unless you are checking the ID against something for validity or watches or realistically matching everything (including legitimacy), there is almost no value to the exercise, including looking in the trunk. I'm pretty certain that a determined bomber could get real creative with a spare tire and some decent-sized luggage that looked normal to the casual observer.

(And by the way, the rental agreement that my employer has with our preferred rental company allows any employee to drive the car -- not just the person who originally rented the car -- so matching a name to the agreement proves nothing.)

So rather than telling people that they are really protecting parking garage revenue, they turn the whole thing into a make-work project for a rent-a-cop and add in a little "security" theatre for Ma and Pa Kettle.

SgtScott31

Ugh. I thought this thread was over.

To correct your ill-information above, although the airport and its properties are considered "private property" owned/operated by the Nashville Airport Authority (MNAA), the roadways & parking lots are open and frequented by the public at large, which means all laws (criminal & traffic) apply. I write tickets on a weekly basis on airport roads, and yes, I have also wrote tickets in the parking lots when someone was at fault on an accident and/or left the scene of accidents. You can also look under Metro Nashville ordinance 2.60.280 here:

http://www.municode.com/Resources/ga...d=14214&sid=42

From your thinking, driver A is driving 50 mph through a Walmart parking lot and creams a car. Since driver A is in a parking lot (private property of Walmart), then law enforcement cannot act on the situation, asking for appropriate documentation and/or citing/arresting the offender as necessary. Maybe that's the case in some states, but not in TN. How do I know? because I enforce it and the courts back me on it.

Besides, as an "agent" of the airport authority so to speak, we can also enforce rules/policies, that although may not be illegal to require law enforcement intervention, is against airport policy and the offender may be asked to leave. If they do not leave, they risk being arrested for trespassing (by us). I'm not throwing it out there to be a "bully," but simply to give you some information.

FWAAA

The airport and its roadways are not "private property." Portions leased to tenants for their exclusive use may possess some of the attributes of "private property."

SgtScott31

I believe I got into the same "tiff" with Houstonian about this. It depends on your definition of "private" property. The airport and its roadways are owned & maintained by MNAA, and as such are listed as property owned by MNAA at the Davidson County property assessor's office. Although open and frequented by the public, those who do not abide by rules/policies set forth by MNAA can be asked to leave said property and can be arrested/prosecuted for trespassing. This has happened, continues to happen, and upheld by the courts. Can you arrest someone for trespassing on a public sidewalk in downtown Nashville? not likely. When I refer to it as "private," this is what I'm referring to.

Please explain your argument as to why it is not "private."

pmocek

SgtScott31, if driver A was operating a motor vehicle on private property -- farmland, your neighbor's back yard, or a parking lot owned by your neighbor and used as part of his business -- and you do not have reasonable suspicion that driver A is violating a law, is the driver is obliged to present you with proof of the fact that he is licensed to drive upon your request?

Of course, laws apply anywhere unless they are limited to specific circumstances. The important question here is whether the law bars people from operating a motor vehicle in this particular place without a driver license.

No, you've misinterpreted my thoughts a bit. There are no speed limits in parking lots, so driving 50 MPH in one is, I believe, generally legal. What you described sounds to me like assault (if the other vehicle was occupied; a similar situation would be swinging a sledge hammer at someone in the other vehicle) or some sort of property crime (if the other vehicle was not occupied; a similar situation would be swinging a sledge hammer at an empty vehicle), which are illegal regardless of whether the location is private or public property.

What you described does not sound like operation of a motor vehicle on a public roadway, which -- as far as I know -- is the only place that one is required to be licensed to operate that vehicle. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

SgtScott31

You are correct. Farmland, your own yard, etc, most traffic laws do not apply because it is not open and frequented by the public at large. An exception would be a guy driving drunk and striking someone on his property. A DUI and/or reckless driving charge can be applied (at least in TN), but those are just a couple of exceptions. The driving public need permission to drive on your land. This is not the case with airports, malls, etc. In TN, title 55 (traffic laws) apply to any roads that are open and frequented by the public at large.

In the previous post, I provided the Metro Ordinances that indicate Title 55 of the Tennessee Code Annotated (TCA) applies on airport property. This includes the areas where rental cars are and parking lots. I do not write speeding tickets in parking lots, but I can cite/arrest for DUI, reckless driving, leaving the scene of an accident, etc.

Actually our lots do have posted speed limit signs.

An assault charge would not apply because we would have to believe the driver intended on crashing into someone and hurting them. Swinging a sledge hammer into an unattended vehicle would be vandalism.

According to Metro Code everyone that operates a motor vehicle on airport property is to be in accordance with TN state law, which requires a valid driver's license. Even if one made the argument that the rental car lots are not open to the public because it has restricted access, you must still drive on public roadways to get to said lots.

It will vary from state to state. A good example is Orlando, FL. Our former Chief was a Captain there and indicated that Florida traffic laws were even enforced on the aircraft ramps. Although there is very limited access to the aircraft ramp (SIDA), they could receive speeding tickets just as those could on roads & highways. We cannot issue traffic tickets to those driving on the ramp in TN, but we have "breach of rules" forms that can be issued. This can affect one's ID and/or driving status into the ramp/SIDA areas.

SgtScott31

Actually P1, just as most other airports, parking in the Short Term Garage (or any lot for that matter) is free for the first 30 minutes. I would suggest this parking to anyone that is picking up a passenger or picking up someone returning a rental car. Besides that, IDs are not checked at the rental car agencies in the garage. They are only checked on those returning vehicles directly underneath the Airport Terminal.

If you and others just do not want to show your ID to the security officer at those rental agencies that require it, go park in the garage and return the keys. Don't let it ruin your day. :-:

sammy0623

It's already been answered, but to make sure the car is being returned to the right part of the rental area (3 were to the right, including enterprise and the rest were to the left...so to make sure the enterprise car is being returned to the right lot) or to keep personal vehicles out

ralfp

This thread has been going on so long that I forgot about that perfectly legitimate explanation.