Sammythebarber

I am brand new to this thread and still don't understand how an ID check is supposed to have any significant impact upon a terrorist plot.

Would you be able to explain to me in 200 words or less how you running around checking driver's licenses is going to have any impact on crazed terrorists intent on blowing up a structure?

If terrorists wanted to blow up a structure wouldn't it be easier to 1) fake an ID, 2) find a different target, 3) ignore all rules and utilize a "full speed ahead" approach, 4) design a method using a delivery device other than an automobile, 5) or think of some other method ( of which there are thousands) to defeat your security methods and accomplish their task?

Your approach is received with a lot of skepticism simply because nobody believes it works. Much more likely is the thought that your ID check, supposedly for terrorist plots, is actually merely a pretext to find other wrongdoers, like people who are not the actual renters of the car (add'l money for rental agency), people who are not licensed drivers, perhaps drug users or sellers, and the like.

Kindly tell us how many terrorists you have uncovered vs. other criminal endeavors. I think once we hear those figures we can come to our own conclusions.

I think the numbers are going to be -0- vs. ? Let us know.

Thanks for your time.

Wally Bird

It's not about pride. But you knew that.

Reading various photgraphers', spotters' and other blogs, it's clear that BNA is notorious for a heavy-handed approach to security. Not the TSA checkpoints, the confrontations happen landside and around the perimiter. I assume this stems from the attitude of someone in authority, the PD Chief or airport Board perhaps. I certainly do not believe it is because Nashville is any more of a target then anywhere else, and I'd say it's a lot lower on any terror list than many. LAX, DFW, LAS and other more tempting airports have less of a perceived problem and even JFK more or less tolerates casual airport spectators.

Is this an actual, jusitifiable approach to security or just being done because they can ? Make up your own minds, there's plenty of material right here.

SgtScott31

You surf the threads here long enough you may see it. I try to give reasons why rules are the way they are, regardless of whether I agree with them or not, and it seems a majority tend to take it as I am the rule-maker. Although I do not agree with a majority of the rules either, I am not going to turn a blind eye to those who are violating them. It is my job to act appropriately to the situation. More than likely I will try to make everyone happy, but there are going to be times where TSA (or other rule-makers) are going to win the battle. How the person handles the loss will dictate what my next action will be. If they handle it maturely, then they will be on their way. If they handle it criminally (refusing LE orders, causing a disturbance, etc), I will be forced to act. Nothing personal, but those here (not necessarily you) must realize there is a time and place for venting and "fighting" oppression. The time & place is normally not at the airport.

I promise you I am one of the most laid back LEOs you will meet. I'm not sure how much longer I will be here, as I am pretty far in the process with a federal agency, but I have had fun none the less.

I have never denied this. I do not want to go into TSA too much, but they are trying too hard, and losing respect from both the public and LE agencies throughout the US in the process.

I do not frequent this one obviously as much as the pro-LE forums, but ever now and again there are legal questions about situations at airports and I try to give them an educated & experienced answer. Many people here have never been in a court room, and even attorneys here who practice other types of law who have no experience in criminal litigation when it comes to violating state and/or federal crimes at airports. Although I am not an attorney, I have been on the prosecuting side long enough and study up on what courts have been ruling throughout the years with regards to searches at airports, checkpoints, and the like. It bugs the crap out of me to have posters here screaming "illegal search," and "violation of civil rights," when they have no idea what they are talking about. They give ill-willed advice to people on the forum to attempt to do something at an airport, which in all likelihood could get them in hot water.

I saw this post concerning BNA and felt that I should answer since I am a LEO at this particular airport. I personally believe that the my dept is one of the better LE airport agencies in the country. I can honestly say that we are not head bashers who go around crackin skulls of anyone and everyone that have an issue with TSA. TSA has a new FSD and it appears that the relationship has not been awesome between them and us. It's sad, because we are all trying to do the right thing, but TSA in their infinite wisdom, has recently had a bad spell of trying to penalize everyone, including our department. I can say that probably 95% of the stress that comes across my Chief's desk is trying to make the TSA happy and not get a monetary fine from DC because of a missed taxiway motion-detection alarm. It is getting ridiculous.

Reread my last couple of posts. I gave reasons as to why I believe the ID checking policy is implemented at the booths where the rental cars are returned under the main Terminal building. There are plenty of other ways a car bomb can be used (as you suggested). I assume the policy makers implemented the ID check w/rental agreement rule because it may act as a deterrent. Whether it does or not, we probably will not know until we get hit with an explosive (God forbid).

Not my approach/rule . I highly doubt it's a pretext for wrongdoers, because I do not catch many people conducting illegal activities who bring back rental cars. We catch more people impaired or driving illegally when they are leaving the Long Term/Short Term parking lots and fail to have their parking ticket and/or an ID/driver's license.

I'm not going anywhere for awhile Coach. I do not come in here as much as I used to, because I feel like I'm just beating a dead horse. Normally it's the same argument and venting as it has always been in the travel safety/security threads.

Thank the heavy-handed approach to TSA. If it is not heavy enough in their eyes, we (the dept) get penalized (via fines) just as joe citizen would for interfering with a flight crew. A majority of our officers are not going to approach the situation with the idea of an arrest in mind, however, they will act appropriately to situtations that warrant LEO interaction. You and others here would honestly be surprised of how much discretion we exercise. As far as photographers, we are not chasing photographers around and beating them. There is a policy about photography in the airport (MNAA Davidson Co. Code 2.60.230 posted here - http://www.municode.com/resources/ga...d=14214&sid=42 ) .

Honestly Wally, it's being done not because "we can," but because LE agencies are starting to fear repercussions from TSA. I can make 100 arrests in a month, but if some water bottles are not inspected properly going into the Terminal, it outweighs everything else. It's a little sad.

Oxb

Thank you for your thoughtful reponses. I understand that you have to do your job as required and that you find some of the things that you have to enforce as less than entirely sensible. I might be nice when you identified the laws/rules/policies that you have to enforce that you find nonsensical.

Now, in the portion of your post that I copied, are you saying that to leave a parking lot at BNA that you have to show an ID or DL or is that just when someone has lost their parking ticket?

SgtScott31

[QUOTE=Oxb;10509348]Thank you for your thoughtful reponses. I understand that you have to do your job as required and that you find some of the things that you have to enforce as less than entirely sensible. I might be nice when you identified the laws/rules/policies that you have to enforce that you find nonsensical.

Now, in the portion of your post that I copied, are you saying that to leave a parking lot at BNA that you have to show an ID or DL or is that just when someone has lost their parking ticket?[/QUOTE]

Just when someone has lost their parking ticket. The contracted parking agency (Central Parking) will ask for ID so that they may try to work out a monetary arrangement to allow the person to leave the lot depending on the circumstances. Some people refuse to show ID because (a) they don't want to pay up one way or the other, or (b) they do not have a valid license to begin with. That's when we are called. Many people do not realize that the parking lots are inventoried every night. Simply "losing" your parking ticket and telling the attendant that you've been in the lot one day is not going to work.

CaptainMiles

I don't go around showing my ID and the contents of my trunk to just anyone who asks. How do I know that the "contract security guard" is really someone contracted by the airport authority, and not some wacko lowlife in a security guard outfit, intent on stealing my identity or my belongings?

And would I have reciprocal rights too? Can I get them to show me their ID? "I'll show you mine if you show me yours".

Sammythebarber

I asked for a simple response (in 200 words or less) and could not get it. I also asked how many terrorists you have apprehended by checking ID's.

No response to either question answers my question.

The truth of the matter is that checking ID's, either by you or TSA, is simply a waste of time and money designed to show the public that you are doing some work. As for safe aircraft, I worry only as to whether a bomb or a weapon is on board. I couldn't care less as to who flies with me.

The money spent on persons like you (and TSA ID checkers) is a total waste. I'd rather the money be spent looking for weapons opposed to worrying about who is flying on the plane or returning a car today. I understand you say this is your job, but to be quite honest, I would not take a job that only wastes public monies.

jamar

Heavy-handed? BNA? I've been through that airport quite a bit, and I've never thought of airport security as heavy-handed (the United check-in staff, yes, but security?). I'd love some links or info about this.

SgtScott31

I gave you an answer in a couple of sentences about one or two posts ago. You seem to have a problem digesting it. Feel free to reread them, as I feel I am wasting posts by repeating myself. It seems that others here have grasped what I posted, whether they agree with it or not is another story. In simpler terms ID checks (to confirm with rental agreements) on those returning vehicles under the main terminal building I assume are thought to be a deterrent by those who devised the rule/policy.

As far as "wasting" public monies, unless you know what my total job entails, I suggest you reevaluate your opinion. I'm not a TSA TSO or a contract security officer checking rental agreements. Aside from actually doing law enforcement work, I am also an Aircraft FF, EMT-IV, Hazmat Tech, Crime-Scene tech and Instructor in several disciplines. All POLICE officers at BNA are cross-trained as FFs and about 1/3 of the department are also EMTs. The remaining 2/3 are First Responder licensed. Considering we have Crisis Negotiators, EOD Unit, K9, SWAT, and a couple of other teams, I can say that we probably have more training (state, local, and/or federal) than most LE agencies in the state. If you have ever been ill or injured at my airport, you have been treated by airport police officers. If you were involved in a aircraft emergency, you were helped by airport police officers. If there are any fires at (or around) the airport, it is extinguished by airport police officers/FFs.

Wally Bird

I specifically stated I was not talking about the TSA checkpoints. Airport security is more than that, as witnessed by this very discussion (car rental lots) and a previous thread where someone (wink, wink) indicated you will be umm.. questioned if you so much as point a camera anywhere in the BNA terminal. I'm not going looking for links for you, you can try seaching www.airliners.net/forums for "BNA" or even do a bit of judicious googling.

In fairness, Nashville is not the only location where the stance appears disproportional to any "threat", Ontario Ca. has a similar reputation. Likewise Columbia SC and a bunch of other rather obscure places. But if you're not a photographer, 'planespotter' or other casual plane watcher you likely wouldn't notice.

Wally Bird

It's more than just a little sad, Sarge. The DHS/TSA has no mandate or authority to dictate police policy. If that is in fact what is going on at BNA then your Chief needs to reach down and pull out a pair.

The TSA has demonstrated time and again that they consider themselves above the law, manipulate the law to serve their purposes and indeed hold the law in contempt. Since the Legislative branch is apparently unable or (more likely) unwilling to rein them in, the only bulwark society has against these scofflaws is the competence and integrity of law enforcement agencies. Seems that's missing too in some places.

Wally Bird

Which brings us back to the crux. You want to check for VBIEDs entering the lot, that's fine if done by sworn law enforcement even though some of us may think it unnecessary. Check the rental agreement ? OK, the rental company employees/rentacops are entitled to do that although that is already done when you return the car. Ensure it's not a stolen car being dumped ? Simple, scan the bar code which is on every rental I've ever seen. Check ID ? No way, not unless there is probable cause and it's done by sworn law enforcement.

Yes whoever mandated this procedure is to blame, but I got the distinct impression you were defending it. You may be forced to abide by it (see previous post); doesn't mean you have to agree with it regardless.

coachrowsey

Gotta luv people who have no f...... clue

SgtScott31

It's ok. If he is not primarily doing business with BNA, he isn't paying my salary anyway.

C'mon now Wally, it's obvious that when the muni code was written (many moons ago) regarding photos in BNA, it was more of protecting copyright issues than addressing security issues.

Wally Bird

Actually I was alluding to this post:http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...&postcount=114

But I think I have strayed far enough from the issue of rentacops demanding ID.