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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   What does this picture have to do with BDO's? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/795141-what-does-picture-have-do-bdos.html)

Flaflyer Feb 27, 2008 10:39 am


Originally Posted by tmspa (Post 9323852)
You seem to base your concern off of whether or not someone is an immediate threat. What about future intent? What about the people who mule money/drugs to fund terrorism? Should we not be concern with any of these activities?

No, the FBI and such should be concerned with such. TSA is not the Be All Do All Catch Em All Umbrella Gestapo of the Homeland Security Department. Well, not yet.

Your job is to make sure the flight leaving in 20 minutes is safe for ME to be a fellow passenger with that other pax.

A heroin smuggler/diamond smuggler/cash mule etc. is NOT a threat to the next plane I am on. The mule wants to be left alone, and get where he is going with his loot. Emphasis GET WHERE HE IS GOING, safe and in one piece. A mule does NOT want to blow up the plane, that defeats his purpose of safely transporting the contraband to its intended destination.

You want to stop funding terrorism? Start here: Ban the import of oil from Saudi Arabia. US $ go to Saudis, they hire the Bin Laden Construction Co to build stuff, stockholder OBL gets his dividends, or a prince gives a cash contribution to OBL. Banning the import of oil from SA will have a billion times more impact on defunding the Waw on Tewwow than lifting a dime bag of weed from a college kid. Get on it. Let us have progress reports as they come in. We're waiting. . .

GOFFend Feb 27, 2008 10:45 am

Judgment based on interagency morning reports?
 

Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 9322608)
I'm waiting for the day when some zealot screener (SPOTnik or otherwise) blows a huge sting that the FBI or other real cops have been planning for months or years. There's no way that the FBI would entrust advanced information to the DHS.




When I am in the office, I read a bunch of electronic situational awareness morning reports from various government agencies most every morning. These are at a pretty high classification level. My advice: Don't flatter yourself.

Lets say based on personal experience, if circulated community morning reports are your source for “putting down his speculation” then I would have to say the “CYA” epidemic on the Potomac is still no were closed to being addressed! Nice try.

tmspa Feb 27, 2008 10:48 am


Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 9319920)
Clicky clicky

If you mouseover the picture, it reads "Photo of behavior detection being used at an aiprort." However, I don't see any BDO's? What's the point of the picture?

UPDATE: New Photo!

LessO2 Feb 27, 2008 10:49 am


Originally Posted by tmspa (Post 9324001)
He is a known criminal.

So what?

tmspa Feb 27, 2008 10:54 am


Originally Posted by Flaflyer (Post 9324006)
No, the FBI and such should be concerned with such. TSA is not the Be All Do All Catch Em All Umbrella Gestapo of the Homeland Security Department. Well, not yet.

Your job is to make sure the flight leaving in 20 minutes is safe for ME to be a fellow passenger with that other pax.

Okay, fine. So, what do I do if I'm screening someone who has multiple IDs (with contradictory info), large sum of money (30,000 - 1MIL), drugs (cocaine or heroin or meth), and no solid story or a contradictory story?

Should I just wave him on by and say "have a nice flight sir, Flaflyer will be seated next to you, feel free to discuss your plans of non-terror with him." ?

Flaflyer Feb 27, 2008 11:52 am


Originally Posted by tmspa (Post 9324105)
Okay, fine. So, what do I do if I'm screening someone who has multiple IDs (with contradictory info), large sum of money (30,000 - 1MIL), drugs (cocaine or heroin or meth), and no solid story or a contradictory story? Should I just wave him on by and say "have a nice flight sir, Flaflyer will be seated next to you, feel free to discuss your plans of non-terror with him." ?

First, is what you say possible? A million dollars is 5 x 12 x 12 inches and 22 pounds. Our mule has three kilos of heroin, or 6.6 pounds. The money and powder will fit in a 9 x 14 x 22 rollaboard (8 pounds) for a total of 36.6 pounds, leaving room for 3.3 pounds of fake IDs and still be within Deltas 40 pound carry on limit. OK, it is possible.

And in spite of the Sky is Falling misinformation propaganda from TSA, most drug dealers are ultimate free market capitalists who do not believe in government regulation or paying income taxes. The "Drug Dealers in the US = Funding Terrorists" connection you are brainwashed with is Pure Bull. Sure, Afghan war lords grow poppies for income, but what are you going to do, send the US Army to invade Afghanistan to stop it? Oh, wait, they already did, and the poppy crop is bigger than ever. By the time you intercept that kilo in MSP, the real terrorists in OBL land already have been paid. Your “making the 6 O'clock news with the Big Score" does NOTHING to stop terrorism.

So I am not worried about sitting next to the mule as long as his 40 pound carry on fits under his seat or in the overhead. What would worry me flying out of MSP is if the pax next to me tapped me on the foot and introduced himself as a U. S. Senator from Idaho. :eek:

HeHateY Feb 27, 2008 1:08 pm

Transportation and Security Administration officials became suspicious of Faid Beydoun as he stood in a security line, waiting to board a Los Angeles-bound flight. When Beydoun's travel documents also raised concerns, agents asked him to step out of line for a secondary screening.

Beydoun, who was carrying multiple passports, then ran from security screeners, jumped 25 feet off the second floor concourse and broke his arm and ribs, The Miami Herald reported.

The man was charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest without violence, according to a statement. They did not identify him, but Miami-Dade County Corrections Department spokeswoman Janelle Hall said Beydoun was arrested for the same charges Monday, as well as loitering and prowling.:confused::confused:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...#uslPageReturn

Polar Man Feb 27, 2008 1:42 pm

Future Crime ?!?!?
 

Originally Posted by tmspa (Post 9323852)
Does any of it have to do with aviation security?

Well, I'm not sure how to answer that. You seem to base your concern off of whether or not someone is an immediate threat. What about future intent? Dry - runs? What about the people who mule money/drugs to fund terrorism? Should we not be concern with any of these activities?

Ah gheez looks like the dhs watched minority report.

FliesWay2Much Feb 27, 2008 1:45 pm


Originally Posted by GOFFend (Post 9324047)
Lets say based on personal experience, if circulated community morning reports are your source for “putting down his speculation” then I would have to say the “CYA” epidemic on the Potomac is still no were closed to being addressed! Nice try.

:confused:

FliesWay2Much Feb 27, 2008 1:52 pm


Originally Posted by tmspa (Post 9323809)
Actually, they have. They have given us a heads up, so that the person they were following would make it to the gate with intent to fly. They were following someone and they gave us a photo description so that we wouldn't pull the person aside and spook them.

I wasn't attempting to "flatter" myself. I was just trying to make a point that sometimes there is more to a given situation than what the TSA or the media puts out. So, did any of your "pretty high classification level" reports go into any detail about this event?

No. The DHS/TSA-related morning reports are written along the lines of "quantity versus quality." You'd expect their stuff to be printed in the police blotter in a local rag rather than in daily publications read by senior decision-makers.

Your first paragraph describes how law enforcement is supposed to work. Airports have been used for decades as convenient chokepoints to either arrest a bad guy using an actual arrest warrant or to conduct well-organized and legal operations. Your agency's uncontrolled dragnet approach puts all of this in serious jeopardy.

VPescado Feb 28, 2008 4:40 am


Originally Posted by Flaflyer (Post 9324006)
You want to stop funding terrorism? Start here: Ban the import of oil from Saudi Arabia. US $ go to Saudis, they hire the Bin Laden Construction Co to build stuff, stockholder OBL gets his dividends, or a prince gives a cash contribution to OBL. Banning the import of oil from SA will have a billion times more impact on defunding the Waw on Tewwow than lifting a dime bag of weed from a college kid. Get on it. Let us have progress reports as they come in. We're waiting. . .

This represents a very naive view of how commodity sales work in the free market. Such a ban would have a negligible effect on oil revenue to SA. It might have a small adverse effect on the price of gas in the US, but even that is likely to be minimized due to the cost of transport already limiting the amount of Saudi Oil making it to the US market.

DallasBill Feb 28, 2008 9:29 am


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 9325174)
No. The DHS/TSA-related morning reports are written along the lines of "quantity versus quality." You'd expect their stuff to be printed in the police blotter in a local rag rather than in daily publications read by senior decision-makers.

Your first paragraph describes how law enforcement is supposed to work. Airports have been used for decades as convenient chokepoints to either arrest a bad guy using an actual arrest warrant or to conduct well-organized and legal operations. Your agency's uncontrolled dragnet approach puts all of this in serious jeopardy.

"SPOT adds an element of unpredictability to the security screening process that is easy for passengers to navigate but difficult for terrorists to manipulate."

Just so you're not confused, it's important to re-read the TSA's rationale. :rolleyes:

Now, continue ripping 'em a new one... ;)


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