There are some everyday activities that teach one to divorce emotional reaction from intellectual and physical action. Roped climbing, IFR flight training, scuba diving, automobile racing. . .

So, while I share your general pessimism, I think there is a reservoir of people unintentionally trained to suppress emotional reactions to stress. Hopefully we will be positively surprised if and when the need arises for them to take action in unfamiliar circumstances.

OK. Fair enough. But please don't confuse inter-agency rivalry for disrespect.

I do not take back anything about the FBI's somewhat condescending attitude towards local law enforcement, but this does not mean the FBI is not capable. It only means it could be more capable if it would get past some of its institutional prejudices. Will you ever hear an FBI special agent admit to this attitude? Of course not. Same can be said of my previous organization; I know we were perceived as a bunch of cowboys permitted to deviate from Army regulations in terms of uniform and grooming standards. Bottom line: the FBI is indeed good at its job. As with any agency, I've seen good FBI special agents and I've seen bad.

As for the CIA, my prejudice is a bit more pronounced and my contempt a bit more harsh. But if I set aside my emotions, I clearly understand why some of their field officers operate in the manner that they do. The culture clash is that CIA outsiders find themselves in tough situations when they must trust their CIA contact with absolutely no guarantees that trust is well-placed. Different than the military culture where you don't necessarily have to like the guy you're working with, but you know you can certainly trust him when the ju-ju turns bad. But the CIA is good at what it does. I just don't approve of some of the back-stabbing methods used by their field operators. Compared to my peers, I've had more positive experiences dealing with the Comedians. However, I think that's because I always kept one eye on the bad guys and the other on my contact. I tried to never get stuck holding the bag.

There are other players, but these are the primary ones I've had the most dealings with. And while I've been out of the family business for some time now, I most certainly hope things are better in terms of inter-agency cooperation. My 20+ year experiences still leave me somewhat skeptical, if not downright cynical. But in terms of each agency performing their jobs, I've never indicated that they cannot.

Heroes tend to respond spontaneously either as a result of training or just pure instinct with a whole bunch of luck on their side. Unlike the movies, however, heroes end up getting killed even if they do manage to save lives with their bravery.

I think what lawdawg is politely saying (if I may be so bold) is that people who usually claim that they'll do this or that in tough situations are usually the first ones who freeze up in pure pant-pissing panic. For me, when I read some of the bravado posted in here, I just nod, smile and think, "uh huh, sure you will."

Nothing personal.

OK, sounds disrespectful to me, but I'll go along.

OK, I'll take that as your current word.

Complicated, but OK.

Unfortunately, that leads us to the newest poor cousin, the TSA. In all seriousness, it is not clear to me, and to many others, what value the TSA has brought to the TLA table. TSA is a backstop to all the other TLAs. In six years, what have they done besides cost the US economy millions in indirect costs (most direct costs would have been spent even if TSA didn't exist).

Any direct benefits have to be put on the books as the term-of-art "goodwill".

Nothing personal taken.

My belief, is that if I find myself in such a situation, is that I won't panic. I've been among panicking people and wondered what they were thinking. I might freeze up. Been there, done that. Horrible feeling after the fact.

Best case. I'll think "Aw $H!t", march forward, and die.

Luckily I've already lived a great life :D

I see you are making the assumption that other agencies haven't thwarted said attacks.

I don't see the comparison between TSA and the FBI/CIA. This isn't just apples and oranges; it's apples and screwdrivers.

TSA is an administrative agency. Nothing more, nothing less. The only exception is the FAM branch of TSA. And even then, TSA is not a law enforcement agency; it is not an intelligence agency. TSA will never "capture" terrorists because it is not designed to do so.

It is designed to conduct administrative searches at security checkpoints. FAMs are the last line of defense. But they are only a defense. A federal air marshal must wait for a situation to develop and then respond.

Should a FAM be placed in such a situation, the question should not only be how did the individual get past TSA as many in here are quick to do. The tough question ought to be: where were the FBI and CIA? what did they know and when did they know it? Once you get the answers to those questions, you may perhaps get a better understanding of my sarcasm towards those agencies. ;)

In a work situation when we have mini-disasters, I am heavily involved, just like I was during our company's recovery from 9/11 (my company was in WTC1).

I like to think that I would be at the front if I found myself in a hijack situation and act heroically but if I am honest with myself I think I will be right behind the hero, not the actual hero. I hope that will be good enough.

Absolutely they are. The problem comes into the TYPE of stress they experience. For instance, a good, good friend on mine works corrections and has been in so many fights, tussles, extractions, edged weapons attacks, etc., to make my hands on experience look like kindergarten. He rarely gets very adrenalized when it comes to hands on stuff. Yet when he had his first shooting he stated all the shakes and tunnel vision and auditory exclusion, etc. came back and hit him like a freight train.

ACTION under stress is the important thing. Live through the first few seconds to let the shock wear off and then ACT. Ideally you want to be trained to the point where the action is instinctive and divorced from rational thought, because rational thought may be hard to come by when the balloon goes up.

Few people have that ability without lots and lots of training. The only other way to really get it is a variation of "mob mentality." If everyone else is doing it most people will be able to overcome their normal roadblocks to act and will participate.

I dunno, I think that the psychology of hijackings has changed dramatically after 9/11. I think getting up to do something is now part of that 45 second loop that you're talking about. It's part of the script now.

Hey, don't think you're talking to someone here who thinks his crap don't stink. I know I'm good at what I do but I too have frozen, and even after training. The situation was too complex for my tactically simple brain at the time and I looped. I know the dangers. I know how easy it is (and even though this happened at the beginning of my career I'd already been in several scrapes before that so I wasn't a virgin or anything). It happens.

It just tends to happen a lot less with training.

How does that help with pax? My answer is, if it is a big deal to you, then what are you doing about it? Are you training (realistic self-defense, etc.)? If it's not a big worry then go about your life as you wish and hope for the best. The odds are certainly on your side.

But that's as individuals. To count on the untrained individual passengers to step up and stop a hijacking is a gamble of the worst odds. I truly hope they do step up. I hope they tear those guys apart. It's just a bad bet.

Consciously I think you are 100%.

Unconsciously? I don't count on it. And in the middle of a hijacking it's hard to think consciously.

What is the proper bet, then?

To count on them as the last layer of a multi-tiered approach.

Do I count on the TSA? Nope. Do I count on the FAMs? Nope. Do I count on the FFDOs? Nope. Do I count on the CIA/FBI/locals? Nope. The pax? Nope.

I don't count on any of them individually. I just know that these are a lot of layers to penetrate and a lot of opportunities for the bad guys to drop the ball and be stopped.

My problem is the pithy "The pax will never let it happen again." Really, now? That's like saying "The FAMS will never let it happen again." What if they're no FAMs on board? What if they're unfortunately taken out before they can act? What it Murphy's Law makes an appearance and it all goes wrong?

Putting all your money on one horse is foolish, IMO.

It might look like that if you don't quote my entire post ;)