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TSA Mythbuster - Secure Flight 72-hr limit
MYTH: Under the proposed Secure Flight rule, I will not be issued a boarding pass unless I have booked my flight at least 72 hours in advance.
BUSTER: Under the Secure Flight proposed rule, airlines would be required to send passenger data up to 72 hours in advance, when available. This does not mean passengers will be automatically rejected if they need to book a last minute flight. The Secure Flight system is designed to accommodate the changing needs of the flying public, without compromising security. TSA will have the ability to vet all passenger data provided against the No-Fly list and make boarding pass determinations up until the time a flight leaves the gate. SOURCE: http://www.tsa.gov/approach/mythbust...re_flight.shtm |
MYTH: We live in a country where people are free to travel. As Justice William O. Douglas wrote for the US Supreme Court: "The right to travel is a part of the 'liberty' of which the citizen cannot be deprived . . . . Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was a part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country, . . . may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values."
BUSTER: People in the US now require the government's permission to travel, even leave the country. Other countries with exit restrictions: Russia (students must obtain an exit visa), People's Republic of China, Saudi Arabia (only for foreigners, not citizens), the defunct Soviet Union. |
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler
(Post 8566957)
BUSTER: People in the US now require the government's permission to travel, even leave the country. Other countries with exit restrictions: Russian (for students), People's Republic of China, Saudi Arabia (only for foreigners, not citizens), the defunct Soviet Union.
What exit restrictions? If you have a valid passport, you can leave the country. Are you being restricted somehow I'm not? If so, why? |
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8566969)
What permission? You can purchase a ticket in a fake name, claim you have no ID, and still reach your destination domestically. Where is the "permitted" aspect?
What exit restrictions? If you have a valid passport, you can leave the country. |
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8566969)
What permission? You can purchase a ticket in a fake name, claim you have no ID, and still reach your destination domestically. Where is the "permitted" aspect?
What exit restrictions? If you have a valid passport, you can leave the country. Are you being restricted somehow I'm not? If so, why? |
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler
(Post 8566982)
See how long that lasts.
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler
(Post 8566982)
Unless you're on the list of people who are not allowed to leave. Do you doubt there is such a list?
@ cpx Please pin down the part where I need permission to travel in that link. |
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8567040)
Is this the indirect way to say you were incorrect as to the current state of affairs?
@ cpx Please pin down the part where I need permission to travel in that link. Forget the link, if you, by choosing to travel, submit your information and the government checks it before allowing you to leave, you do indeed need permission to travel. That's just logic and no amount of rhetoric can change that. |
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8567040)
Please pin down the part where I need permission to travel in that link.
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Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8566969)
If you have a valid passport, you can leave the country. Are you being restricted somehow I'm not? If so, why?
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8567040)
@ cpx
Please pin down the part where I need permission to travel in that link. When you are about to travel outside of the country, your information is again reviewed. (indirect permission to leave) if for some reason if they think you should not leave the country, DHS will make sure you do not leave the country. Process is different, but concept is the same. |
Do you not agree that there are certain people who should not be allowed to leave the country?
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Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8567040)
Please pin down the part where I need permission to travel in that link.
If a subsequent manifest is submitted less than 60 minutes prior to departure, the private aircraft pilot must resubmit the arrival manifest and receive approval from CBP for the amended manifest containing the added or amended information before allowing the aircraft to depart the foreign location, or the aircraft may be, as appropriate, denied clearance to depart, ...................... After CBP receives the submitted information, DHS would send a message to the submitter of the manifest information before departure from a foreign airport indicating that the information has been received and specifying whether landing rights have been granted at the requested airport, granted at a different airport designated by CBP, or denied. ........................ After receipt of the manifest information, as in the case where the manifest information is conveyed using a CBP-approved interactive electronic transmission system, CBP would perform an initial security vetting of the data and grant, deny, or restrict landing rights as appropriate. ......................... DHS is evaluating whether to inform the pilot, in the event that CBP denies or restricts landing rights for the plane, which passenger(s) has been identified by DHS on the selectee or no-fly lists so that the pilot may better understand potential threats to the security of the aircraft. In addition, such notification could avoid additional flight delays or disruptions by allowing the pilot to remove that individual from the flight until such time as the individual resolves the selectee or no-fly designation with TSA under TSA's redress system. Accordingly, DHS is soliciting public comments on the economic costs and benefits of notifying a pilot about an individual selectee or no-fly match being aboard the aircraft. This NPRM proposes to require the pilot of a private aircraft departing the United States to a foreign port or location to submit a departure manifest to CBP. Similar to the arrival manifest, the departure manifest would contain information identifying all individuals onboard the aircraft. The timeframe for submission of the departure manifest would be no later than 60 minutes prior to departure from the United States to a foreign port or location. This NPRM clarifies the pilot's responsibility to ensure that a departure manifest regarding all individuals onboard the private aircraft is submitted .............. 2. Notice of Departure This NPRM proposes to require private aircraft leaving the United States for a foreign port or location to obtain clearance from CBP prior to departing from the United States. 3. Aircraft Required To Clear The existing regulatory language in 19 CFR 122.61 exempts public and private aircraft from leaving the United States for a foreign area from having to obtain clearance prior to departing from the United States. As such, CBP is proposing to revise paragraph (a) of Sec. 122.61 to indicate that private aircraft leaving the United States for a foreign area are required to obtain clearance from CBP as set forth in the language proposed for Sec. 122.26. The paragraph will further state that all other aircraft, except public aircraft, leaving the United States or the U.S. Virgin Islands are required to clear if they carry passengers and/or merchandise for hire or take aboard or discharge passengers and/or merchandise for hire in a foreign area. .................. E. Landing Rights CBP currently requires all aircraft arriving at a landing rights airport to request permission to land, known as landing rights, from CBP. Given CBP's authority to deny landing rights within the United States and to restrict landing to airports designated by CBP,\14\ this NPRM proposes to expressly state CBP's authority to deny permission to land in the United States and/or limit aircraft landing locations. Search for rulemaking USCBP-2007-0064-0001 (direct link not possible) |
This is all well and good, and does certainly point to the requirement for permission as it pertains to air travel.
But where is it written or stated that the right to travel without permission extends to ALL modes of transportation? |
Does anyone think Kip is smarter than Buster?
MisterNice |
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8567040)
@ cpx
Please pin down the part where I need permission to travel in that link. http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/.../apis_faqs.doc and see Question 3. Passengers are 'not cleared' unless they receive a response (permission to travel) when they will be cleared or become a selectee. Compare with Question 16 for handling those on a list not allowed to fly. |
Originally Posted by oneant
(Post 8567644)
This is all well and good, and does certainly point to the requirement for permission as it pertains to air travel.
But where is it written or stated that the right to travel without permission extends to ALL modes of transportation? As a matter of practicality, eliminating the ability to fly presents a de-facto prohibition to traveling to many destinations. |
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