'Plot Would Have Killed Thousands'
 

EXCLUSIVE: Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff Offers Chilling Details About 2006 Airplane Plot and Current Terror Threats

Aug. 6, 2007

Terrorists who had planned to detonate gel-based explosives on U.S.-bound flights from London last August would have achieved mass devastation, according to new information from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff in an exclusive interview with ABC News.

"I think that the plot, in terms of its intent, was looking at devastation on a scale that would have rivaled 9/11," Chertoff told ABC's Pierre Thomas. "If they had succeeded in bringing liquid explosives on seven or eight aircraft, there could have been thousands of lives lost and an enormous economic impact with devastating consequences for international air travel."

http://tinyurl.com/ynl6b8

We cannot guard against every conceivable threat. As soon as we ban one thing, another will take its place.

Skeletor fear-mongering again? Shocking. :rolleyes:

'Plot Would Have Killed Thousands'
 

And I'm Marie of Romania.

Wolf!!!! Wolf!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

The video was interesting to say the least. As one of my professors always asked "how much?" "Small amount" doesn't tell me how much. As usual, though, no tough questions ... only softballs that panders to the government.

I thought they taught journalists how to think in their majors (like philosophy classes and crap like that)?

Gotta wonder about the exclusive. ABC probably got it because they wouldn't ask any tough questions and would lick their boots.

"7 or 8 a/c" = "thousands of lives lost" ... :rolleyes:

What, 7 or 8 A380s configured entirely for Y? Some of the Japanese 747s in full-Y, with 26" seat pitch?

Comrade Chertoff has shown he is as good at math as he is at security. :td:

Not to mention that EVERY independent expert in chemistry and explosives has called the plot completely untenable. Yet DHS keeps citing their own "experts" to the contrary, but refuse to disclose any of the details, just "trust us, we're right, and everyone else is wrong." :rolleyes:

And the plotters apparently were at the yokel stage of "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could do this?" and didn't have the sort of expertise to even begin to pull this off.

Why doesn't Chertoff make his next press conference to state, "Just imagine if the terrorists had light sabers! They could cut through the cockpit doors and hijack thousands of planes at once!"

Also interesting how they showed old Lockerby explosive tests to drive the point home. They said it, but it was easy to miss. Good for scare tactics though.

Technically, he's "truthful" with the thousands ... as it's about 2800 based on UA's 747, but that's assuming 8 planes completely full, and that's being generous. It's a lot of people, but stilln ot 9/11. And of course, he's implying that thousands was in the scale of close to 10k or more by how he was using it. :td:

Super

This was exactly my thoughts on this.

Imagine if they had pulled off their plan to hypnotize the screeners, disable the FAMs with the Vulcan death grip and to take over the plane from the pilors with their Jedi mind tricks! Imagine that!?!?! Millions of people could die!!!

I'm trying to imagine real security but honestly, I have nothing to go on, in real world...

I'm not generous enough to grant Kippie and Chertoff the scenario of all 8 planes, all 8 being 747s, and all 8 being at 100% load factor, and of course all 8 teams carrying out their attacks successfully and near-enough simultaneously to make the plan work, though. That's not realistic.

And, of course, we're still under 3k at that point... technically "thousands" (as in, more than a single thousand), but hardly the connotation of the term, either.

I'm not granting them that either. But you know that's the numbers they're working off of when they made this "announcement."

So ... like ... whatever happened to those bad boiz of last summer? Presumably all convicted of life-in-prison offenses, no? :rolleyes:

Just to refresh my memory ... weren't they all released?

Link to the video
 

I found this report frustratingly lacking on details or serious reporting. I encourage all to provide feedback to ABC as well.:mad:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3453344

sorry they force you to watch a commercial first.

I believe they were.

Must have been some really serious plotters to have all been released.

Feedback provided under my other pseudonym, lysking. Site's slow, so there was a double post.

It's no wonder this country is full of sheople when you have propaganda running as the news. :td:

Luckily, we're trained to defend against the Vulcan death grip. :)

Remember when (I think) NBC was caught exploding a car? Well, why don't we file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to Sandia Labs and find out the formula they were using?

If, as I've read through these posts and other online articles, the quantities, etc weren't practical or realistic; and, everyone raises questions about the test, let's find out exactly what was done.

I'm sure they'll claim an exemption under national security exemptions to FOIA, but it might be worth a try.

I'm really getting sick of no one knowing the truth.

As one of my physics professors said, real science doesn't just ask what happens. It also asks how much? That second question, he said, would debunk a lot of junk science out there. In particular, his pet peeve was the "cell phones give you cancer" and he debunked why that was next to impossible by showing us "how much."

Chertoff---you're a disgrace to my people (both Jews and Americans in general):mad:. As has been said in other posts, funny that only ONE set of "experts" has agreed with this. I know where I WON'T be getting my news from in the future.

Don't you all agree that they are using these scare tactics on us to justify the stupidity of the TSA and all the bans they force upon us?

Does the coversation go something like this:

Ok, men, we had better come up with something, so that we don't look like the total idiots we are. The American sheeple are so stupid that they will believe anything we tell them. WE are the government, afterall. Ya, that's it, we will scare the crap out of the American people, then we will look like heeero's. :rolleyes:

"Intent"/"Intend" vs. "capability"/"ability" in actual circumstances.

1 liter bag of 3.4 oz bottles or less is ok but 2 liter bag of 5 oz bottles are not ok -- idiotic restriction given persons operating in cooperation or even an individual going back and forth between the checkpoint even once (or even not) can still readily get around the restriction through a wee bit of applied wit and deceptively labelled bottles.

This "solution" is no solution for that which it is purported to be.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D052; Blazer/4.5) 16;320x320)

Chertoff would be funny if he weren't so pathetic.

Meh.....if you're a terrorist, why worry about Freedom Baggies? Just put the liquid containers in your pocket which will never be checked (Cargo pants are a terrorists best friend) or ship them via the airlines cargo service. Trigger the explosive via a timer or a remote control.

Boom......done.

If this threat is that real, that is all the more reason not to be entrusting our defense against it to a government monopoly.

... and Chertoff's mad-genius company has not only failed to implement an all commerical passenger jet cargo screening requirement they even were not strong proponents of all passenger jet cargo screening. Instead what Chertoff and company sold the American people on is the cargo-equivalent of the passenger "registered traveller" nonsense, namely the "known shipper" program.

Chertoff and intelligence don't seem to go hand in hand. On the other hand, Chertoff and ineffectiveness go hand in hand.

Heck, use an altimeter trigger, and no need to worry about a timer or a remote working.

And Kip and Comrade Chertoff have us quaking in our shoes about carry-on liquids in ziplock baggies? :confused: :mad:

This kind of molds into the other thread about the "sheople getting restless."

The increased amount of face time, press releases and "media leaks" by the DHS and TSA tell me they're starting to feel the pressure at HQ. It seems like they're having to counter more frustrated and doubtful people, hence these scare tactics and "interviews."

Not surprising, yes. That and they are trying to hit Congress for wish list fulfillment while also engaged in political CYA.

The political CYA is a tacit admission that they know America is not as safe as the incumbent political leadership and Administration apologists have claimed as achievements for themselves in recent years.

That statement is just as full of hyperbole as was Chertoff's interview (press release).

The truth is that the airline CEO's want Chertoff out front making press releases that help their bottom line. So they call Cheney, and Cheney calls Chertoff, ...and we get to laugh at him on national TV. It really is that simple and it really is a waste of oxygen.

OTOH, FT's waste oxygen debating how many aircraft/seat configurations = "thousands", and demanding to know how many milliliters of solution the terrorists intended to use and in what exact formulation. This administration is full of scoundrels and habitual liars, demanding the truth is a waste of time...you won't get it. I want my 5 minutes back.

I think you're giving them too much credit with the second paragraph.

The "interviews" and the press leak with the four cheese bombs (all of which I heard on MSNBC last week were debunked), to me, are just veiled scare tactics. Those apply to your first paragraph of trying to entrench themselves into the budgets and get more dough.

The airline CEOs of the US and the world are not all calling Cheney asking for him to get Chertoff to issue statements to the press to help their bottom line.

That only works if your company is named Halliburton.

...and Chertoff has the genius to do this when Congress is in August recess.

Firstly, can chemicals be mixed together to create an explosive mix? Of course they can. Can those chemicals be mixed and prepped either ahead of time and carried by hand in a bottle, or mixed onboard an aircraft for detonation? Almost all non-neocon scientists agree this is almost impossible, highly dangerous, and on top of that, none of the UK accused (since released from jail anyway) had the mental or skill talent to pull off such a feat. Tell me again why we're still dumping our shampoo into buckets while cargo remains unscreened?

Secondly, how would these fear mongering statements by a crazed lunatic with police-state totalitarian ambitions help the bottom line of anyone in the transportation industry? If anything, it would scare some of the weak minded sheeple away from travel, not encourage them to travel more.

The bottom line remains we have a DHS leader whose public behavior makes him look like a deranged fool, and whose inept mismanagement of his agency has made it the least popular place to work in the entire public service sector.

And - we're no safer now than on 9/10 - and probably less so.

"Hey, hey. Ho, ho. The DHS has got to go!"

Maybe I am giving them too much credit, but fear has been used pretty recently to scare Congress into passing quite a bit of stuff in the interest of their CYA as well.

That said, the tactics hit -- deliberately or not, on-target or off -- at the "home front" during this time of the year.

(my bolding). The Secretary of Fear spouts some highly-qualified drivel and the reporter(sic) helpfully portrays it as a statement of fact. And most people don't even notice :(

I was away for the weekend, from what new scandal is this intended to divert attention ?

If it starts with "if" do not trust it
 

If there had been thirty packed school busses on that bridge last week, then a thousand school children could have drowned in the Mississippi.

If the FAA did not have safety rules, then a lot more planes might crash.

In the book “Don’t Get Taken Every Time”, written by a car dealer explaining the ways “used care salesmen who give the occupation its bad reputation” rip off customers, there is a very useful rule of thumb. Something like “Any sentence that begins with the word “IF” is not in your best interest or is a lie.” As in “If I can get the payments down to $200 will you buy this car today?” means “Warning you are about to get robbed.”

I find the “if” test works well for political appointees running their mouths for sound bites. See opening quote from Comrade Chertoff. I wouldn't buy a used Homeland Security from that snake oil salesman.

That was amongst my points in my earlier post mentioning "intent" and "capability". Chertoff and DHS is not beyond playing games -- word games and others. Unfortunately journalists don't always or routinely analyze material properly, but then again this is the media doing what it does for bringing in the money and source development -- so we got what we got from the patsy media here too. :eek:

See, I interpreted the overall tone of the video as Chertoff saying (for the airlines): "Yes, there are risks...but we're on top of it as evidenced by our swift reaction to the UK incident...so it's ok for you to fly".