The constant barking....
 

I think that my experiences with the TSA would be much more pleasant and quite a bit less memorable without the constant barking.

This morning, at MSN, I'm coming through security at about 5:20AM. I had everything organized and walked through the WTMD as soon as my last bag entered the x-ray.

On the other end, I have a set routine -- I slide my laptop into the already opened pocket, put my freedom baggie in another already opened pocket, and grab my shoes so I can get out of the way.

This morning, some nasty woman started barking at me to get my stuff off the rollers and onto the table so I don't "hold up the line." I already had three of my four objects already off and was reaching for the fourth when she grabbed the bin and slid it out of my reach. *****.

Then I get to DCA and as I'm walking out, all I can hear is a few TSOs barking, braking, and barking at the long line entering the terminal A area. I could feel my blood pressure rise.

Why don't they just shut the hell up already?

According to Bart, his management thinks its doing a service by having the barkers there to help "speed" things along. Philosophy might vary from airport to airport though.

I don't normally tempt Godwin's law, but the TSA personnel at EWR's terminal c, middle entry, are pushing the comparison to SS guards telling people to step into the showers. I was horrified at their tone the last time I crossed through security with my son, who is 7. All I could think is that he will grow up thinking this kind of abuse is normal. :(

This is what bothers me intensely, too: institutionalized abusiveness as the routine course of conduct towards fellow citizens rather than benign courtesy and respect for dignity.

Periodically, I think that it would be good to have an initiative just to get the TSA to be more polite. Now, I think that the more vile they act, the better off we are. I like to think that we won't be inured to this quickly.

They want everyone to be well trained, to get with the program and fall into line like good little sheep. Anyone who speaks up against this systematic abuse is unpatriotic and possibly even a security threat. Oh, and they want us to keep paying for our own abuse because they know what's best for us.

"Freedom baggies out, laptops out, shoes off, belts off and boarding passes ready! Do NOT speak or ask any questions! If you speak we will have to do a secondary screening and body cavity search!":(

Funny that this was just posted....I was going to start a thread of my own about it....I thought they were all but gone. Going through the TSA has been almost "pleasant" (and I use that term loosely) lately...but lo and behold at LAX today, a barker....so annoying, loud, and pointless :mad:

I'm thinking of hiring a barker for my waiting room. It might help keep my patients in line. "Insurance cards out! Copay ready! Clothes off! Let's go! Move it!" I'm sure that my office will move far more efficiently.

This goes along with my plans to institute a SPOT program. If a patient looks unduly nervous or sweating, he or she gets a colonoscopy. Not to mention, "Sir please stand over here for continuous prostate examinations."

Oh, Doctor, that's funny. I will think of this post the next time I visit my doctor. I wish my doctor had the sense of humor that you have.

At PHL the ID checkers are the worst at this. Many visits ago, past them, I was really hacked and yelled "STOP BARKING". Everyone thought I was looney.

I will give an OT praise to TSA yesterday, I was rushing out of D to catch SEPTA, the exit lady asked if I was seeking terminal F (which can't be accessed airside after leaving D), I said no, but thanks - nice of her to do more than just be "standing around".

Agreed, although not always (perhaps it is certain shifts?). Like the OP, I am at the same checkpoint, through the metal detector, my stuff is through the scanner, and who shows up but Mr. Clean. You know the guy: too many steroids, shaved head, TSA shirt far too tight. "Move down!!!" "Move down!!!" he shouts. I just look at him and add calmly: "Please." He puts his face up next to mine and shouts "Move down!!! Please!!!" and shoves my things to the end of the rollers.

As I head to the PC to enjoy a glass of Stag's Leap, I spend perhaps a half a minute to wonder what the rest of his life is like.

Great point. Nasty people are usually nasty everywhere they go. They need to feel superior over other people, so they put other people down. Their lives are usually so miserable by their own hand. I have run across these types a lot lately. It's all bravado in front of the guys/gals. They need to be slapped back into reality. They especially pick on people who are the nicest because they mistake niceness for weakness. They are the weak ones and it glows like a beacon. Those are the people they get the most joy from picking at people. They are great at doing this in front of a crowd, but get one on one with them and their inferiority complex shines.

I bet this guy bullies because he is in front of his comrades and wants to look macho. He wants to look like he's got the upper hand, when in fact he's really making a fool out of himself. He probably has no friends in the real world and is a sad excuse for a human being.

There are people who get their jollies by acting this way.

I will never forget sitting in a restaurant in an east-coast city and listening to the 20-something at the table next to me telling his date "we graduated from the police academy today, got our badges and guns so now we have the power over the people". While there are many good folks in LE, there are some folks like this that give everyone a bad name.

Sorta reminds you of the stereotypical image of a Marine DI with new recruits.

Most legitimate law enforcement organizations conduct psychological screening of applicants in an attempt to weed out individuals who exhibit such behavior. I doubt TSA does so.

A USMC Drill Instructor performs as he/she does in order to accomplish a specific training mission - preparing young men and women for service in harms way, potentially under enemy fire. The attitude and the stress levels generated in the recruits by that attitude are carefully calculated and taught during Drill Instructor school. It is designed to keep recruits under a specific level of stress/tension at specific times, while at the those times training them to perform specific tasks related to the mission of the Marine Corps.

Most of the men and women that serve as Drill Instructors are actually very decent people, without the power trip evident in the conversation you overheard concerning the recent LEO graduate. Take the Smokey Bear (nickname for the Drill Instructor's distinctive cover, or headgear) off, and they are, for the most part, very hard working, dedicated military personnel that believe in their mission - to prepare Marines for battle and give them the skills to provide them with the best percentage chance of surviving the battles they may face.

I agree completely, and I used the words "stereotypical image" for a reason - because that is the image that's often shown in the movies.

There is no question that most DIs - like most military folks I know - are exceptionally good people.

I'd like to say that I haven't experienced any of what you are talking about, but I've seen it all too recently at both PHL and TUS.

I miss the airports in Europe with their polite and efficient screeners. I also like airports like LAS where they have a person on TV doing the briefing in a calm methodical method. No screeching, no power tripping, just nice, even-handed instruction.

I'll take it one step further. I think that most of the bullies that we see have become that way over time. I see far too many references to Nazis in this forum, and I think the Stanford prison experiment is a far better comparison. Obviously, the extent of the bullying is different, but it's an interesting read about how circumstances can change an otherwise "normal" person.

Mike

"The next time you take my property from me like that, I'll have you arrested."

As soon as TSA has cleared your carryons for airside, they have no right to touch anything. If someone grabbed something of mine from me, they'd hear about it.

Oh, I can't tell you how much I LOVE traveling through NRT... NO barking and they even give me slippers to wear while walking thru the WTMD (my shoes have metal eyeletts and I purposely take them off) .... ahhh what the TSA could learn... oh, did I mention the cool water bottle detectors they also have in Japan, no problems with liquids there ;)

Did you ever think to disregard things if the message wasn't intended for you?

The people the "barked" instructions apply to are the same ones who fail to read the 400 signs leading up the checkpoint.

I'm just curious as to how the TSA should get people to move efficiently in line.

Having traveled through FRA, BKK, DEL, NRT, GYE, SIN, AMS in the past 6 months... I havn't gotten "barked" at going through security at any of those airports... are passengers in Europe, Asia, S. America so much more different than in the US?

Do the passengers follow the posted rules? That should give you the answer.

Hard to disregard it when the screener is in my face while I have already placed my items in the bins and am patiently (or maybe not so patiently) waiting for the clown ahead of me to disgorge his pockets and computer. *I* am the one barked at, yet it's the guy ahead of me slowing down the line? What's wrong with this picture? My goal is to get through as efficiently as possible.

And yes, that was the case at BWI Pier C last Friday... when the TSA had only two screening stations open despite a very long line. Stop barking and start screening.

Y'know, I think that PAX are the same everywhere, or mostly so according to my experience.

Some countries just chose to have customer service employees (and that's what the TSA et. al. are) be polite and friendly and not bark at people.

And, y'know what? I am more likely to comply with a smile when I am told politely and with a smile than I am when I am barked at - the latter bringing up the otherwise long-gone anit-authoritarian adolecent rebel in me ;)

But then, I am weird that way: I actually prefer to be treated decently and politely.

How 'bout having the customer service staff members that are manning the checpoints telling us pax politely and with a smile when arriving at the WTMD what to do -- like they do in so many airports around the world?

That surely beats having it screamed to my face by some grumpy customer service employee.

Y'know, after living among other people for a while, I have noticed that among that which does not work is to tell people to "calm down" or "hurry up" or "get moving" -- most will, just out of spite and often unconsiously, do exactly the opposite. We don't like to be told what to do -- we like to be allowed to chose what to do.

Ever had a verbal fight with anyone and have the other party tell you to "callm down" (or a variation thereof)? Did that make you calmer, or just more angry at the other party for trying to tell you what to do? I'm almost certain that you didn't "calm down".

Law enforcement officers (Some? Most? All? I do not know how such are trained in the US, but I bet it's similar to elsewhere) learn about creating "voluntary compliance": getting the person in front of you to want to comply with your wishes, rather than to have to rely on packing heat. The customer service staff that the TSA has deployed at the WTMDs would do well by learning that too.

Example-time....

I flew out of ORY a while back, in my usual professional outfit, which involves a belt with a large metal belt-buckle.

In the US, the TSA customer service staff usually bark "Belt must come off, now", which leaves me somewhat iffed and unhappy since control is taken over my possessions and my person, and I am left with no choise.

Well, in ORY, the person at the checkpoint said "If you think your belt-buckle will make the detector sound, then you're welcome to take it off and put it through the X-ray, and save an extra trip back and forth, or if you're sure it won't make the detector beep, you can keep it on."

Guess what? In ORY, they gave me two options: to either chose to keep the belt and risk it beeping and the subsequent frisk/double-pass/SSSSS, or to chose to pass it through the X-ray". And so, taking the belt off was my choise and I felt good and even thankful that the lady helped me avoid hazzle.

In the US, my "choise" would be "do you want to fly today?" -- which is actually not a choise but a threat (we all know the difference between "threat" and "choise", yes?).

The final outcome (that my dangerous belt-buckle was X-rayed) was the same, but I as a PAX felt better in ORY, more willing to comply and to smile at the staff at the Xray and the WTMD and in general to "not make their life miserable" and do as they wanted quickly. I didn't time it, but I sure felt like the line was moving very fast and that I got through security in record-time and with no grump....something I've never noticed with TSA customer service agents involved.

This is basic "dealing-with-other-people" stuff, and my doctorate is not in psychology but in "something with computers. And since we all know that computer-people are not known for having the best people-skills in the world, if I can learn/understand the above, then so can everybody else....Especially those dealing with customers (including the customer service agents that the TSA employs).

So, you asked what I suppose was a serious question in how the TSA customer service agents should communicate with PAX. I've tried to answer, to justify my answer and to give an example of a place where what I suggest is succesfully deployed.

For a start, by getting rid of illogical rules such as no liquids/baggies, shoe carnival, the overkill prohibited item list and SSSS.

And therein lies the difference.

Here in the US, there is this magical assumption that just because a sign is posted, even multiple times, that's it's automatically going to be read and adhered to. TSA, including some on this board are incredulous as to how passengers don't read every one of the hundreds of signs at the airport.

In many airports outside of North America, there are a lot fewer of those signs. Yet things go a lot smoother there. Wonder why.

I can name a few reasons why the USA is different than other countries.
 

First off in other countries you don't have a "middle class" that might travel occasionally, but not regularly enough to keep up with the rules.

In other countries ALL WORKERS are expected to be treated with respect. In the USA the norm seems to be to beat up on any worker deemed less respectable than you. I was yelled at by my Australian wife because I didn't say Please TWICE when ordering something from a menu. My usual statement is "can I please have burger." She told me I was expected to say please at the beginning AND end of an order in Australia. Now that my friend is RESPECT.
TSA employees get so much disrespect that its just natural for some of it to flow back at the passengers. It might not be right, but its the way it is.

That is an amazingly revealing tale, on just so many levels.

I admire your posting that on a public BBS. ^

What does you handle mean again, We Will Never Forget? The Constitution? The Bill of Rights? Common courtesy? I forget. The Barkers represent none of these things. :confused:

Last month I arrived at DFW at about 5:00AM on a flight coming from OGG. I am a smoker and went outside to have a ciggarette. I had a short, but informative conversation with a TSA agent.

She asked me if she could borrow my matches. I then asked her when the security line opened closest to where we were. She then asked me if I had my freedom baggie ready. I told her that I knew the drill after many flights. She actually used the term "Nit-Wits" to describe the people going through security. She said no matter how much they tell people to have their liquids in the baggie, they don't listen. I explained the story about how our white honey was taken away at OGG because my husband, behaving like a Gomer thought it was food and put it in my carry-on. She said that was nothing compared to what some idiots have in theirs. She said it was like talking to a bunch of babies.

This told me what they think of us, the flying public. I have a feeling that the Barking has more to do with the things she said about us, the flying public than trying to help people understand the ever changing rules.

She didn't seem to bad talking to her one on one, but as I said in another post, it's when you get them in a group that they turn into Jekyll and Hyde.

9/11

The Golden Rule

Why we are the best nation in the world and how we got here.

If I am reading your post correctly, you have excluded yourself from the described "nit-wits". Thus, any "barking" probably isn't directed at you.

She said no matter how much they tell people to have their liquids in the baggie, they don't listen.

Again, how would you propose to gain cooperation while still keeping the lines moving?

By any chance have you read any of the MANY posts in this very thread that clearly and specifically answer your question?

Yes, and there is not ONE answer that will work for all. Obviously, some airports can be more laid back, but what about the others? For example, those with Ma and Pa Kettle who haven't seen a plane in 20 years?

I'll give you 9/11. Fine.

The Golden Rule? Do unto others as you'd have done to you? A noble goal. But are you seriously trying to tell me that all TSA officers are so ridiculously masochistic as to want others to yell at them at the top of their lungs all day? That's reaching a bit far, IMHO.

Again, the idea is to follow the example of other countries around the world. Let's take the example of Frankfurt, because that is an airport I am very familiar with.

The security check is layered - first, you have someone checking boarding passes.

Next, you have some people standing at the beginning of the line with a baggie, asking people if they have liquids on them. If they do, they are asked if they have bagged them already. If yes, they're told to go on, if not, they are pointed to a fairly big sign detailing the ruled and asked to read it, and to prepare themselves accordingly.

You go through the line, which has never taken me more than 10 minutes, and then you get to one of the multiple X-ray machines. The checker there politely(!) and at a reasonable volume asks if you have 1. liquids, 2. a laptop, 3. anything in your pockets that might set of the metal detector, like a cell phone, loose change, etc.

You go through, pick up your stuff at the other end and you're set.

You never hear the screeners raise their voice to the passengers, the noise level is acceptable, and the line moves at a pretty good clip. Wait times are minimal, and you get people through the system with a minimum of stress and ill will.

And before you ask whether such a system could work in the US, please take a look at this statistic about passenger levels worldwide. There are only 4 airports in the US that handle more passengers than FRA - ATL, ORD, LAX and DFW. It is possible to move large numbers of passengers through the system without barkers!

See my example for FRA above. They catch the "nitwits" early and explain it to them before they get a chance to hold up the line. And they do it in a friendly fashion.

Ma and Pa Kettle may be inexperienced, but they're not necessarily stupid.

I'm sorry, but this is absolute hogwash. Let's take the 15 countries that were in the EU prior to the latest round of expansion towards the East. Or Australia and New Zealand. Or South Africa. Or Singapore. Or Hong Kong. Or Canada. This list could go on and on and on. There are plenty of countries worldwide where a fairly large chunk of the population flies only occasionally, but still regularly (like every two years, or something along those lines).

Other countries also have to deal with Mr. and Mrs. Fly-once-a-year, and they manage to do it just fine. WITHOUT YELLING!

Let me add a few European airports to your list of professionals, Alex:

MUC, HAM, CGN, DUS, STR, CDG, LYS, LEJ, TXL. The list goes on and on...

Fast, efficient, thorough security and everyone is polite. I left Heathrow off the list because they have done some barking in the very recent past.