security done right
 

“Sir, these are a security threat,” the guard announces, triumphantly brandishing the water bottles she had discovered in my hand luggage. I make an abortive attempt to negotiate return of the empty bottles, but she doesn’t understand and I don’t really care. Mostly, I’m just amused at being back. Back in a world where security is a charade.

I’d just arrived in Budapest from Tel Aviv, en route to my home in Amsterdam. Security in Israel, as you might imagine, is a serious business. My security check that morning at Ben Gurion took just under two hours. The surprising thing? It was really quite pleasant.

It started with an extensive interview. They wanted to know everything. Why I’d been in Israel, where I’d visited, where I stayed, what I did, what my routine was, who I met, who funded my trip, when did I decide to go, when did I buy the ticket, what I work on, how I met my Israeli hosts, how I got my current job, why I took my current job, why I spent so long in Australia over Christmas, etc., etc.

My security facilitation officer (my title for her, henceforth we’ll call Jenna) stayed with me the whole time. En route between the various security check-points, she would pepper me with questions, intent to trip up my story. Maybe she’d rifle through my passport and ask “When did you visit Fiji?” or maybe she’d ask me to take off my glasses (again) so she could compare me (again) with one of the photos on the many pieces of identification I’d entrusted to her.

I’d been in Israel visiting two colleagues at Tel Aviv University. They looked at all the emails we exchanged. I showed them our joint papers and they got excited when they noticed one had today’s date.
“But you said you finished this before coming here?”
There followed an extensive tutorial on how LaTeX (a scientific word processor) automatically adjusts the date.
“You say your background is in physics, but now you say you have a job in computer science. What courses in computer science did you take?”
“None, I taught myself.”
“But how could you be hired if you have no training?”
I fumbled this one and they kept coming back to it. Eventually, I told them I was smart and we moved on.
“Can you explain the connection between physics and computer science?”
Oh, boy, you betcha… they had to cut off my answer.

They x-rayed my luggage, they swabbed every single thing in my suitcase for explosives and then they re-x-rayed all the electronics individually. They did my laptop first and then gave it back to me so I could check my email why they were testing everything else.

Meanwhile, Jenna had gone off to check me in. It turned out the flight was overbooked and they wanted to bump me to a later flight. The KLM agent and I carried out a long-distance negotiation intermediated by Jenna, who didn’t waste the opportunity to continue with her questions: “Why are you so keen to be on this flight?” Meanwhile, I was taken away into an enclosed room and searched.

Finally, I was done. Jenna wished me well, asked another random question, and then introduced me to a lower-level agent, who stayed with me as I checked-in, showed me which counters to go to, and then led me through a bypass lane so I could get to the terminal without having to go through the hand luggage scanners.

And they let me keep my water.

Based on your experiences, I'd rather deal with our morons. My travel plans are nobody's business.

Welcome to FlyerTalk!

There's no way I'd want to play these stupid games with Israeli "security".

Screen my stuff, I'll be happy to do the WTMD and the Puffer and then that's it. I don't do interrogations and my fees to explain the connection between computer science and physics to "security" personnel start at $400 per hour, 2 hours' minimum charge.

I'd say this is "security" done overboard, not "security" done right.

Agreed. Even the AMS "interviews" sounds enjoyable compared to that.

Imagine if they bring that over to the US, as every "security" consultant in the US is ex-TLV.

:confused: :cool: :) :eek:

Whoa. Quite intensive! Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I bet someone was watching what you were doing on the computer too. It's amazing that they even re-x-ray items individually. Israel really means business!!! Your security officer was quite sharp!!!

I've heard the security officers in Israel are junior members of the Mossaud or members-in-training.

I've rather have real, professional security screening rather than smoke-and-mirrors. Here's an interesting question: If we were to install a TSA security check-point after check-in and before boarding the plane, how many passengers in TLV would have items confiscated (e.g. water) and/or get fined? :rolleyes:

This is an extreme example where Israel screens passengers and not objects.

- Pat

In fairness to the TLV staff I think what we read below is the highest level of screening, not the norm.

Ditto...Welcome to FlyerTalk!

:D ^

I'm going to have to remember that the next time I'm asked about some of the items in my laptop bag! Especially since they had been through the x-ray and ETD swabbed with nary a peep! :mad:

If they don't look like they've got the $800 minimum (cash only), I just give the Dr. Peter Venkman (Ghostbusters) response: "It's technical." ;)

Ah, but it the United States, it's no one's business who I am, what I do, or why I'm flying.

Not something I'd welcome in the US, for it's not going to be "security done right" in the US. (TLV security can be shown to have failings too, but that demonstration requires a waiver from prosecution.)

About the questioning, less "readable" material along = less basis on which to conduct any meaningful questioning. "I'm a recovering pack rat." ;)

I'm so glad that you appreciated the security at Ben Gurion Airport.
I have experienced a far less extensive interview and baggage screening, but that's perhaps due to my rather obvious religious affiliation and ethnic background (no prizes for guessing).

When I teach nursing and medical students about obtaining a patient's history, I talk about El Al security. They have found that their friendly, conversational style is far more effective than a series of canned "yes" or "no" questions. I teach my students to have a more dynamic, friendly style when talking to patients... you get more useful information that way.

I think that one of the most noteworthy features of security at TLV is the absence of power trips, badges, and yelling. The staff bubbly, wishing passengers a good trip, talking to kids, and so forth. It's relaxed, hospitable, and dignified. And I

There is no jacket or shoe removal, no wanding or frisking (unless it's absolutely necessary), and one need only clear security at a single checkpoint (i.e. no double checks, no gate screening.)

Of coruse there is a dark side. There has been uproar from Arab passengers facing undue inspections. Of course I have mixed feelings about this, but I can certainly understand concerns about discrimination.

If I could use Tel Aviv security for every flight, I would.

Ditto

Welcome to Flyertalk, been. Interesting first post. :-:

:snicker: I'd pay good money to watch that (from a safe distance).

Been, welcome to FlyerTalk -- and congratulations on one of the best-written posts I have read here. It was done well enough to have been crafted by a professional (and I don't say that lightly, journalism is my own profession).

Your experience at TLV was an unusual one. Security checks, even for foreigners, generally take about 10 minutes -- and the only time I have been escorted to check in was when I arrived 5 hours early for an El Al flight. They explained that anyone showing up before the normal three hour check in is required to go to airside immediately and they stayed with me until I did.

Something made "Jenna" suspicious about you. I can not even begin to imagine what that might have been. Possibly you met the description of someone they had been told to look for. Perhaps they had a specific warning about the flight you were going to be on and were looking at all foreigners more closely. It might well have been something you said -- anything far from the usual will ring bells, even if it stands out in a "good" way.

A few years ago, for example, a friend of mine came here for a short visit. She was an American Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, stationed in Italy. Moreover, she was Black and had NATO Intelligence credentials, which she showed to El Al Security in Rome.

This really threw them. She probably would have had no problem if she had been a senior NCO and gotten on the flight at JFK, but whoever heard of a Black, female, LTC boarding in Rome and how did she get those impressive NATO credentials?

As they were with you, they were very friendly with her, but they wouldn't let her board until they were completely satisfied. When she told them she would be seeing a friend in Israel, they asked for my telephone number and called me (from Rome!) to verify her story.

A similar situation happened about two years ago, when we had a Meet of FlyerTalkers in Tel Aviv. They all flew here on different planes, and from different parts of the world. I expected that some would run into problems when they said they were going to Tel Aviv just to spend some time with people they knew from the internet. That story, too, sounds odd.

Most got through fairly quickly but Traveller, an American who had spent a few days in Istanbul on the way here, also had them wondering. I had given my telephone number to all of them and El Al, indeed, called inquiring about Traveller.

One other FlyerTalker coming to the Meet had a rather long interview but that was undoubtedly due to the large number of visas in his passport from various Arab countries.

If you flew a different airline to get into Israel you might well escape the interrogation but flying out is a different story. Everyone, no matter what airline he is taking, is questioned.

You don't "do" interrogations? No problem. Just be prepared for a long bus trip to Cairo or Amman. It requires no interviews at all and you can buy a ticket on EgyptAir or Royal Jordanian to take you home.

(Of course, I can't guarantee that you won't be questioned in those countries. Their own security forces might be curious about why you were not allowed on a plane out of Israel.)

Ditto that!!!

Actually, with the way things are at TLV, I'd only consider visiting Israel by crossing from Amman or Cairo. If entering from one of those two cities also prompts an interrogation, I'd be pleased to empty my wallet in either Jordan or Egypt instead.

Royal Jordanian is a member of Oneworld and BA flies into both AMM and CAI. :)

You consider going through all that quite pleasant? To each his own, I guess.

Interesting post, though, thanks, and welcome to FT.

Do you get that grief if you fly in on another airline like LH, or is it just an El Al specialty?

Intensive security is fine, if...
 

It is effective. I don't mind the third degree provided it's not for show. I'd rather sit through an extensive screening that was conducted properly than be subjected to a half-a**ed dog and pony show.

I was really skeeved by Heathrow security's "pat-down", not because I was being patted down, but because I was delayed while the outside of my legs and my armpits were repeatedly checked. I could have hidden a kilo of C-4 in my crotch and they never would have found it. NOTE: I absolutely do not advocate anything like this. My point is simply that even the longest security checks are worthless if done improperly. So if an intense screening is effective and relatively pleasant, kudos.

When flying into Israel, it's generally more of an El Al thing and is not anywhere near as common or "comprehensive" :rolleyes: as on most other nation's carriers.

On the way out of Israel, whether you are on El Al or Lufthansa or any other commercially scheduled flight out of Israel, the process is basically the same (i.e., there's the "interrogation").

They've missed people and prohibited items before too; however, they don't miss as much as the TSA. (It would be very hard to do worse than the TSA. ;) )

The OP's story is another good reason why I don't have the urge to visit Israel, ever.

And it's also a reason for me that I WOULD be visiting Israel. I like the feeling of real security-not the ballet we're used to in the States.

I can't imagine a security clearance keeping someone out of visiting anywhere. Especially when we hear that the original story is out of the norm.

Funny thing is, I went thru a 10 minute interrogation at the gate on my flight back from AMS..... :rolleyes:

I'm really not worried about what would happen if there was only a competently administered WTMD, x-ray, and chemical test with absolutely no questioning. Things would be plenty safe as far as I am concerned.

It is only one of the reasons. The main reasons for not visiting are more appropriate for OMNI.

Only when you fly on a US based airline and at the request of those airlines, so easy to avoid if you don't like it.

It's not a reason for me to visit Israel. (I have better reasons to visit Israel than experiencing yet another "interrogation". ;) )

Flying a US carrier from AMS? ;) Then the "questioning" is no surprise -- and yet another reason to avoid flying US carriers from Europe. The AMS "interrogators" are acting the part of clowns too. Want to get me started on the the "security" training and "interrogations" being done by Israeli "security consultants" at various other European airports too? They mostly are clowns as well, despite many of them having worked at TLV.

:like clockwork: ;)

That's all I'm saying. :cool:

Just because the person doing airport "security" questioning has never come across a person meeting those criteria is no reason to badger someone.

Do you think that the person's ethnicity came into play at FCO? Obviously it wouldn't be the first time that racist profiling has happened there for the flight to TLV.

Israel has been under constant attack since it was created. To be able to continue to exist, and to protect ourselves, we have to do things we don't particularly enjoy.

When we go into any large building, be it a bank, a restaurant, a mall, or one of many hotels, we are wanded and any bags we are carrying are searched.

At particularly sensitive places, like hospitals, we go through metal detection machines.

Our daughters spend two years of their lives in military service. Our sons go in for three years and then spend one month a year until their mid-40's on active reserve.

The situation right now promises to be worse than usual. After Hamas lauched about 50 kassam rockets at the town of Sderot within one week, the Israeli Air Force shot back. Hamas considered this particularly not nice and said it was the end of the "ceasefire" (which they apparently understand to mean that Israel should cease and Hamas should fire).

In return, they said a few days ago, they will restart suicide bombings from the West Bank.

We realize that we have to protect ourselves and if part of the cost is going to be having you empty your wallet in Jordan or Egypt instead of Israel, so be it. We would rather risk losing some tourism than losing a number of lives -- we're just strange that way.


You are making the same mistake as the TSA -- looking for the weapon instead of looking for the terrorist. An M-16 in the hands of someone who has no intention of using it presents little danger. On the other hand, even the most banal (and permitted) object, like a laptop computer, can kill -- just swing it at someone's head.

(Indeed, if you know how to do it, a rolled up newspaper shoved into someone's solar plexus is deadly.)

In 1972, three members of the Japanese Red Army boarded a flight to Israel on Air France. No inspection of them or their hand luggage would have produced any results. They were completely unarmed.

Their checked luggage, however, was a different story. It included automatic rifles and upon retrieiving it at the airport they opened fire -- killing 24 people and injuring 78 others.

This tragedy might well have been avoided if Air France used the same procedures as El Al.

You like using loaded words, like "badger" and "racist" -- but neither is correct.

The OP certainly did not complain about being badgered. Neither did my Air Force friend or Traveller. Indeed, all three remarked about the professionalism and friendliness of El Al security.

Did my friend's "ethnicity come into play at FCO"? Yes, it did -- but that is not the definition of racism. Indeed, had she been a member of a Black Church group coming to Israel for religious purposes she would have most likely gone through Security quickly -- it is a scenario which the Security people have seen over and over.

It was the combination of all the factors which I mentioned, her race, her rank, boarding in Rome, and her NATO intelligence credentials which made them somewhat suspicious.

(Incidentally, I don't think I am revealing any personal secrets -- certainly not to those of us who have had the pleasure of meeting her in person, or seeing her posted picture on F/T -- but Traveller is not Black. Still, Security called me about her, too.)

Should race be ignored? In many cases, that would be very silly. Right now, much of the European police is busy looking for a four-year-old blonde British girl who was kidnapped in Portugal.

They obviously don't have the manpower to check every single blonde girl of that age who is travelling anywhere, but if a Black couple were to be spotted driving with a young girl meeting her description, the police might well stop them and ask a few questions. If they claim that this little blonde girl is their own daughter, I am certain that the police are going to ask for a bit of proof.

It is one thing to live in an ivory tower or in the La-La Land inside the Beltway and pontificate but quite another when called upon to deal with the problems that the real world faces.

I'd feel safe with a quarter of that. People wildly overestimate the security risks of air travel.

Well, until Israel gets its act together as far as a reasonable amount of safety while preserving civil liberties, I am indeed quite pleased to spend my money elsewhere. I'm just funny that way too.

I really don't care. If someone wants to do me harm, they can try all those things at the mall, in the park, etc. I'm not going to live in fear of the remote possibility of an attack by a not-properly-armed assailant on a plane who has been screened for real weapons. I'm also not going to spend my life looking over my shoulder in fear of an unknown assailant shooting or stabbing me in the park. That's a sure ticket to an early grave - via hypertension/stroke/etc.

They could have done that in any US city - without flying first.

If you are satisfied with the civil liberties enjoyed in Egypt, fine. I don't think, however, that many Egyptians would agree with you -- especially Ayman Nour, former head of the liberal Al Ghad party.

But they didn't. Instead, they got on a plane from Japan, flew to Paris, and then got on another plane and took it to Tel Aviv. This is a good indication of just how much more acute the situation is here.

Nor was this the only instance where foreigners decided to murder Israelis. Those who took over the Air France flight included two members of the "German Revolutionary Cells".

It is interesting how many people from throughout the world are concerned about Israel "preserving civil liberties". Frankly, I would consider being allowed to continue living to be among those basic civil liberties.

You are complaining about words that you read as "loaded". Just because you think a word is "loaded" does not mean the words are incorrect, particularly when my selection of words are correct. When the treatment is more extensive, it's a form of badgering. When a principal component used to make a "judgment" about who gets badgered is based on race, it makes it racist.

Just because someone doesn't publicly categorize something in a particular way, doesn't change the underlying reality of what does happen: racist stereotypes are in play to determine who gets badgered the most.

A lot of people tolerate racism. Some even advocate on its behalf in a variety of situations. And a number of those who tolerate racism, whether directed at them or others, try to ignore/downplay the presence of racism by denying that it exists in rather akin situations, even when personally impacted.


The ivory tower and La-La Land is where most of the advocates of racist profiling find themselves without even knowing it. They find comfort in taking the morally cheap (i.e., dehumanizing) way -- particularly when it's cheaper and puts on a good smoke & mirrors show that sells to the dominant audience -- while ignoring (or dismissing) how a litany of such practices is self-defeating.

The above situation is irrelevant to this situation: investigating a past happening involving a particular known/recognized individual is different than preventing a future happening not involving a particular known/recognized individual.

Airport security doesn't preserve civil liberties but it can do something other than violate them while providing actual security. Does airport security preserve life? Not very often, regardless of a small number of anecdotes that ignore the bigger picture. Has airport security preserved lives without the racist profiling? Yes. Could airport security preserve lives without racist profiling? Yes, except in the minds of those who are captives of cheap measures, dependent upon cheap thinking. Could airport security preserve lives without the questions? Yes.

Firstly, there was no badgering. Secondly, something is only racist when race enters as a negative factor.

That was not the case here. Her race entered as an unusual factor -- as did her rank, her sex, her NATO credentials, and the fact that she began the itinerary in Rome.

If a white man by the name of Irving Goldstein tries to get on an El Al flight in Milan and says he is doing so because he is part of a group from an African Methodist Episcopal (AME) church in Mobile, Alabama, he is going to get a lot more questions than a Black member of that church boarding at JFK.

Does that make El Al anti-white or do you think they just don't like people named "Goldstein"?

So only white male officers with credentials connecting from the US wouldn't be a flag, but the above is? :confused:

I personally think that's ridiculous. Sex, skin color, are ridiculous to consider when even shown with those credentials. Verify the credentials if they desire, sure. But I think the other factors for getting the business are :td:

Big difference there. NATO isn't primarily a black or white organization as many people from many nations with different backgrounds work for it. Of course someone white would be unusual for an AME church, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that they belong, nor would I think it relevant.

Anything out of the usual raises questions. That is why El Al verified Traveller's story but did not call me about those who flew directly here from their home countries or who had simply made a connection in Europe.

(Indeed, if Traveller had just said that she was doing some touring and wanted to visit both Turkey and Israel, there probably would have been no problem. Throwing in the FlyerTalk Meet was just enough to put it over the edge.)

It is not a question of what is or is not relevant. It is simply a matter of what stands out from the crowd.

Firstly, per your own narration of events, there was badgering, in the form of more extensive questioning/investigation.

Secondly, with security questioning on the FCO-TLV LY flights, the security person's perception of race often enters as a negative factor; that is, certain ethnicities, particularly when the persons are not jewish, more routinely get chosen for more extensive questioning. Per your own narration, race entered as an "unusual factor" -- really a "negative factor" in the eyes of the security screeners.

Remove those racist factors and the the treatment would not be racist. And terrorist plots could and would still be foiled without the application of racist stereotypes.

Everyone in the world is unusual when you dig deep enough. ;) It's just when some see certain "types", the jump-start alarm button goes off for them and they start looking for "a matter of what stands out from the crowd" in a way that they wouldn't do for other "types" with whom they more closely identify. Racist stereotypes are in play often enough there.

Again, what about the white man with a Jewish name who says he is part of a Black Church group? Is the further questioning he gets because El Al is racist when it comes to whites or to Jews?