To borrow one of your own words from this thread, I say that your question is a loaded question, loaded by way of an inaccurate assumption built into the question.

There are special interest groups fighting for racist profiling in the US; but racist profiling, as advocated for by some here, is distinct from fighting for more accurate methods of providing security in the US.

To make matters more explicit: asking a question built on an inaccurate assumption (i.e., the inaccurate assumption which claims that racist profiling is a more accurate method of providing security in the US) is little more than the asking of a loaded question.

I'm confused. Are you saying you don't want to visit Israel because it doesn't preserve civil liberties, but you'd be happy to visit Amman or Cairo? I don't expect that sort of double standard out of you.

I'm sure the security inspection you would get, as an American, would likely be less comprehensive (or competent) at Amman or Cairo, but if you met one of the profiling categories which did concern them, your back room treatment would not be anywhere near as respectful or polite as that of the OP. And, you'd stand a greater chance of not emerging from the back room for many months.

Well, no, that is not quite correct.

I have no idea whether or not the security person used to work at TLV but he did not clear Reid. Indeed, he flagged him but French authorities overrode him and allowed Reid to board.

You might want to read the entire timeline on CNN.

I read that before and more recently too, and it does not make what I said incorrect either. (That is, your assertion that what I stated is not quite correct is relying upon something incomplete.) He was questioned on more than one day, including by more than one person who worked and/or trained in TLV.

He was cleared by French authorities -- and I am yet to see one of them working in TLV.

Actual security is not the agenda for the groups I have in mind. Further elucidation would be strict OMNIfare though :eek:

Did I say otherwise either? No.

That "cleared by French authorities" as well doesn't change that he was also questioned by persons who worked and/or trained in TLV and let him on board.

Thanks for the warm welcome and your comments!

I want to clarify what I meant by the title “security done right.” I certainly didn’t mean that security screenings in America (or elsewhere) should be this intensive. It’s a completely different situation in Israel. Some examples: your bags are searched umpteen times per day, any important buildings are surrounded by barriers, and wherever you go there are off-duty 18 year old soldiers wandering round with machine guns slung over their shoulders.

As coast2coast points out, my experience must have been extreme. I occupied an average of two agents for about two hours. If they did this for everyone, they’d need to employ about 20000 guards, just for Terminal 3!

Rather, my point is that, even though the security is much stronger, they respected me and treated me with dignity the whole time. No “power trips, badges, and yelling” as Mats points out. No petty rules. Obviously I’d prefer not to be screened. Given I was, I appreciated the fact that they weren’t wasting my time, in that if I’d been planning mischief, they probably would have found out.

Dovster, I don’t know exactly what made Jenna suspicious about me. I asked but she deflected the question. I’m white so it’s not that. I suspect it was because I found it hard to describe my job in a way that fit in with their questions.
“What is your job function?”
“I do research.”
“What does that mean?”
“I prove theorems and write papers.”
“Who tells you what to prove?”
“Um… it doesn’t work like that.”

Welcome to FT by the way.

Airport security spending two hours questioninng a non-terrorist is something besides "wasting time" (and money) when terrorist plots can be and often are foiled at places besides an airport?

I had very similar experiences on El Al flying from ORD to TLV and back. While security personnel in TLV was very polite and courteous, it took them 2 and a half hours to process me. They checked absolutely everything, I was in the back room, and as a result, missed my flight. They put me on a later flight departing in an hour, middle seat... A lot of inconvenience, but at least I was dealing with smart and courteous people the entire time.

Flying from ORD to TLV it took them also about 2 and a hald hours to process me, however the personnel was very rude. I would say it was the rudest security/check in experience I have ever had. As a result, also a middle seat and almost late for my plane.

Result here is that I will not fly El Al to Israel again. Flying from Israel, everyone goes through the security process, so El Al is not an issue here, but overall, I will stick with SkyTeam.

I agree, i would rather deal with our morons at TSA than Israeli style security, although I have to say that their TLV security is top notch and very professional, at least i didn't feel like they were treating me like a child.

Also, wanted to share my very recent experience with TSA at TBIT at LAX. Going through security, i forgot that I had a lighter in my carry on bag. They saw it, and wanted to search my bag. No problem there, stupid rule, but they have to follow those stupid rules. It took them 15 minutes to find somebody to search my bag, while I was still standing there. The Xray lady screamed several times for anyone to come up and search my bag, finally someone showed up.
She searched my bag, I showed her where the lighter was, she took it and suddenly went away, leaving my bag sitting there opened. I waited for 5 minues, then 10...then I started asking TSA staff if she was going to be back and if anyone was to process me. Finally, 5 minutes later TSA manager appeared and asked who was searching me. I couldn't tell him her specific description as I wasn't paying attention, I just said she was a heavy set lady. Then Xray lady came up and told the manager she knew who was searching me, and whispered her name to his ear. his response: "Oh, she just got off her shift".
My question for the manager was, "Was she going to tell me that, or to finish processing me? She just dissapeared!"
In response, he just shrugged, zipped my bag and handed it to me, without checking anything.
I asked if I am free to go, he just shrugged again and walked away. I proceeded to my gate.

No comment. :rolleyes:

This may or may not be applicable to your particular situation, but forcing people to miss their flight (i.e., delay things long enough that they get put on a different plane) and stuck in a middle seat is routinely part of the "treatment" when they imagine that a person is a "security risk".

Do you have any attribution for that?

Elsewhere in the world, it is a remote possibility. In Israel, such is not the case.

I remember once when I was working with some Israelis at a mall kiosk. On a very slow day sales-wise, me and one of the other gentlemen went to the food court to eat and we had a very long and pleasant conversation. At one point, the conversation was this:
Him: "This is amazing to me"
Me: "What is?"
Him: "Sitting here for this long"
Me: "Why is that?"
Him: "In Israel, we don't sit in a food court for an hour and eat lunch."
Me: "Well, why not?"
Him: "Because it could blow up."

Without saying anything more, I understood far more about life in Israel.

^

Israel is a sovereign nation and can choose the lengths to which it will go in the name of security. Many of the things that are done in Israel in the name of security would happen in the United States over my dead body - but I accept that when traveling to another country, sometimes I'll have to follow laws and submit to practices that would be unacceptable in my own.

Is it me or does this more sound like Jenna is more accostomed to the "formal training --> boss --> job in area of training" and "command-control" models of employment? I mean how many people are in the computer field with no formal training? How many people are in a job that they have no formal training in? (Oh my heavens no! I'm not talking about my boss...:rolleyes:) And how many people have jobs where they determine their own workflow?

But the world has changed. It used to be that the only reasons people traveled such long distances were: business (meetings, contract deals, conventions etc), family (birth, death, illness) or pure tourism (see the pyramids, Leaning Tower etc). Add religious pilgrim travel for Israel.

But nowadays people will travel for no other reason than wanting to find that perfect cup of coffee! That's not "odd" any more. Used to be people only met significant others' and spouses via family, friends, work and maybe the occasional bar. But now people hook-up via AOL, MySpace, Match.com, Craigslist all the time. I know a girl who moved from Delaware to London because she met a guy on AOL. They got married--and divorced. She lives in London and works for Virgin Atlantic, he lives in NYC and works for a German bank.

Having a bunch of Internet friends fly from all over the world (from wherever) just to have lunch isn't odd any more. How many FTers over on the Gay forum are planning to meet at DisneyWorld for Gay Days or travel to Palm Springs for some gay festival? How many FTers have taken some "wacky" itineraries just for a mileage run? Granted one or two have been questioned by da Man because two back-to-back trips to London with no hotel stay was "odd" in their eyes.

After seeing MTV's Sweet Sixteen show where the brat flew to Paris--on a whim--to find a party dress, I don't think of any travel plans as "odd" any more.