I raised my voice and they threatened me with arrest
 

Traveling at IAD because the airline canceled our flight due to a mechanical and put my family on a different airline, we got SSSSSSed.

They put you through a great deal of rigamorale. There is a whole body air sampler scanner, the usual metal detectors and a large area past those where they do a wipe-test of your bags and an inspection.

I was put into the glass pen after I walked through the metal detector and I couldn't see my stuff. My stuff was miles away. No line of sight.

So I objected. Several times. Nobody paid attention. So I objected louder. I wasn't angry just talking loud.

A TSA person rushed over and told me that if I "kept being disruptive" they would have a policeman arrest me.

So, no line of sight with our bags and they are not responsible for any loss, of course. Fantastic.

But think about the children!

This is the kind of thing we bring up and TSA posters like Bart don't seem to get. Yes, agreed, you shouldn't yell or act out. But what is wrong with the TSA agent coming to him and saying "sir, please lower your voice a bit. Now, HOW CAN I HELP YOU?" I wonder sometimes if those words exist anywhere in TSA training. Too frequently we have all seen them immediately default to the "I'll have you arrested" nonsense. TSA should prohibit all but senior supervisors from using certain words and phrases, like arrest.

Fair question. And I'm faced with my own challenges both on the floor and in the classroom. Coincidentally, our current training cycle focuses on customer service, and I take advantage of that to turn it into a discussion rather than a lecture. I address how our intent may be to communicate a set of instructions to help passengers process through more quickly, but we may be coming across as rude or abusive. As an example, I've heard someone tell passengers to be considerate of the person behind them by picking up their belongings and putting it together at the tables provided in the rear. I've challenged them with actually picking up a bin and saying something along the lines of, "sir (or ma'am), we have tables in the rear for you to use. Here, let me help you get your things over there." Just that little bit makes a difference between being perceived as rude and actually providing good customer service. I prompt others to come up with examples of situations they thought they handled well and situations where they intended to be helpful but things didn't come out so well. Point here is that I'm trying to get TSOs to look at things from the passenger's perspective.

And I always have a lead or supervisor in the class. I tell the class that at times there's that one passenger who perhaps has had a bad day, perhaps is on the way to a funeral or just left one, or for whatever reason has a lot going on in his or her life and the last thing that person needs is someone in a uniform telling them they can't take a half-empty bottle of water through the checkpoint. It's the last straw and they've decided to take a stand. I explain that supervisors make 25 cents an hour more than the rest of us (always gets a chuckle) and for that extra quarter, they have the wisdom, experience and maturity to handle these passengers. So we should never allow ourselves to lose our composure nor get into any pissing contests because we aren't paid that extra 25 cents to deal with it. But the supervisors ARE! So we should always refer such passengers to the supervisors. (For leads, I joke that we make an extra nickel more an hour. So we should make a nickel's worth of effort to resolve the situation before referring it to the supervisor who should be able to handle these situations five times more effectively!)

Richard,

A TSA screener can no more direct a LEO to arrest someone than you can direct them to.

At the end of the day its the LEO's call as to whether or not your actions rise to the level of an arrestable offense, which it doesn't appear in this case to have been.

"Freedom isn't free."

(Especially as long as McDonald's is still paying less than the government's airport security racket.)

"I'm not being disruptive, I just want to ensure that you are following SOP that is intended to protect me and my belongings. Would you please send over a supervisor (and if necessary the GSC)."

You can ask the airline to remove the SSSS in this case since the reason was due to a mechanical cancellation.

And I thought that the puffers were out of service right now. I never saw the $100k+ machine ever in action at IAH.

^

When I've gotten hit with the dreaded SSSS or the extra search, I always ask someone on end of the conveyor belt to bring my belongings to my screening area after x-ray. Oftentimes, this is someone different than a (power-hungry?) screener who directs you towards the extra search zone. I leave the power-hungry ones alone to soak up in their ego.

Bart - I've read plenty of your posts. And whilst i appreciate what you're trying to do on this forum i have to make the following point.

I find the following statement hilariously funny and absurd;

"I've challenged them with actually picking up a bin and saying something along the lines of, "sir (or ma'am), we have tables in the rear for you to use. Here, let me help you get your things over there.""

Bart - have you ever "worked the floor" at a major airport during rush hour? For some reason i can't for the life of me imagine a TSO saying that to me. The majority of your colleagues are ill-trained, ill-mannered, and ill-tempered. There are no buts to it.

I'll give you a specific example that relates to the OP's post. In SFO earlier this year, I was pulled aside for secondary screening - my hand luggage did not get pulled aside. I mentioned this to the officer, who said "it was being looked after." When i got back to the x-ray, the smaller of my two bags was missing. I immediately told this to the officer and was told "Are you sure you had two bags?" HELLO?!?!? Luckily at that moment, a lady comes back to the screening area and says she picked up a bag by mistake...and gives it back to TSA. How does that happen? Luckily nothing was missing from the bag.

As someone who has to travel to the US for business on a regular basis, i am used to being pushed around like a subservient sheep. A point to ponder - I take two big holidays a year with my family. From 1997-2001, that involved 8 trips to the US, probably spending around US$20k-30k each trip - from 2001 to now : Absolutely no family holidays to the US. Zilch. Why do you think that is?


In fact, i think the following sign should be erected at every check-in counter; :D

"Basic human rights are not permitted beyond the check-in area. Please ensure they are packed in your checked luggage. They will be returned to you upon arrival at your destination."

Sorry for the ramble....but i think there are sooooo many things fundamentally wrong with your organization. The passengers who fly day in and day out are your country's best defence against terrorism. They will be able to spot things that muppets like certain TSO officers will never be able to spot and alienating them is not doing you, your organization, or your country any favors.

You nailed it!
 

Can't improve on that.

I dread it when I HAVE to fly, and go out of my way to avoid it.

Used to be a great experience at one time; have fond memories of the former 'KaiTak (sp?) heart attack into HK and then the train ride into mainland China to where you appear to live (?).
Funny (maybe) but it was more pleasant to go through Communist China Customs as a US citizen in the 80s than it is to go through US TSA on a domestic flight now!

I have become a frequent driver indeed.

Lots of Variability in Airports
 

I think Bart must be training the folks in San Antonio. I have actually observed TSA agents following Bart's training example. On the other hand, Bart needs to get cracking. Other airports do need training. I can't think of any off the top of my head that stand out. I'm sure others can.

In my experience, the higher the cost of living in an area, the worse the airport security experience.

In San Antonio and other cities in Texas, TSA provides a living wage and is rewarded with better than average workers.

San Antonio is not JFK, EWR, LAS, IAD, BOS, LAX, SFO, DFW, ORD, or MIA.

And yes, traveling through communist China is a lot more pleasurable than traveling through commu....err....democratic America.

Actually, the person running the screening machine should also have the common sense to stop the machine when bags get backed up - just as they do when they want to take a closer look at something. The delay of trying to get your bag out of a bag pile probably is more than if the operator stopped the machine for 3 seconds to give pax the chance to put their computer back in their briefcase and put their shoes on.

What's more, I often find TSA employees chatting with each other about personal issues and generally distracted. The entire set-up is a disgrace and I am highly doubtful this group could stop a well planned attack.

I'm at San Antonio. I'm not at LAX, BWI, ORD or DFW. I train my screeners accordingly. I don't doubt your experiences at other airports. I can only control my little corner of the world.

Best defense against terrorism is carried out by highly-trained men whom the government denies exist who wear black masks and come in the dark of night to plant two rounds of ammunition in the center of the foreheads of men designated as targets by their government before they disappear back into the dark. Efforts by TSA will stop the amateur terrorist or the non-terrorist passenger who failed to pay attention in high school chemistry and was dumb enough to pack flammables, corrosives, or explosive materials in his or her luggage. Same applies to the irresponsible gun owner who either failed to properly pack his firearm in checked luggage or packed a firearm in carry-on.

No airport security agency in the world can stop a determined, well-trained terrorist from smuggling dangerous weapons onto a commercial airplane. The very best that can be accomplished is to attempt to increase the odds of detection, and to some degree, hope that blind luck is on the side of security forces while Mr. Murphy (as in "anything that can go wrong will go wrong") is on the side of the bad guys. I have never said otherwise. I base this on my personal experience of penetrating supposedly impenetrable high security facilities and then passing recommendations to the commanders of these facilities on how to improve their defenses. Some of it is also based on my personal operational experience. I'm not fooled by the PR. Hope I never gave that impression to anyone whenever I've discussed airport security.

Still, it's a worthwhile effort. And unlike the critics in this forum, I'm not ready to give up just because it's too difficult. How un-American is that! Or perhaps it is fast becoming an American trait since we've "progressed" into this century with the belief that it's okay sometimes to lose.

It's never okay to lose. It's even worse to give up trying.

Slightly OT - but 5 million miles?!?! What do you do to fly so much? I don't know if i envy or pity you?? ;)

"Terrific... please get the LEO here as soon as you can..."

"Go ahead. Make my day."

I'm talking about in the context of aviation security. Your best bet is to rely on the exponentially more 'smart' travelers than on over-worked, under-trained, ill equipped TSA officers.

Disagree. What happens in many cases is that there's always that one passenger who takes his time (in a vast majority of cases, we're talking about male passengers) removing items out of the bin and placing them inside pockets, etc. and/or repacking laptops, etc. without any concern that the people behind him are waiting for their items to come out of the x-ray machine. This forces the lane to come to a complete stop. Please explain the common sense in that?

You are absolutely correct that this is an issue. On my floor, it's absolutely clear that the only conversations that take place at the x-ray should be whenever it pertains to discussing something the x-ray operator observed that needs to be followed up with a physical search. It used to be a problem until I laid down the law a few years ago. Maintaining this standard is easier now that a majority of the screeners know what to expect from me.

As for stopping a well-planned attack; not so sure someone would attack a checkpoint itself. I guess they could do that, but I don't think that's a high priority for the bad guys. However, as for attentiveness, we run frequent tests against our TSOs, and they are increasing incrementally in difficulty.

My scope of control is limited to San Antonio, second shift. I can't speak on behalf of screeners on the other shifts nor at other airports.

Disagree yet again. Sorry. Different backgrounds and experiences between you and me.

Amateurs panic or will do the wrong thing at the wrong time even with the best of intentions.

Bart, I think you're missing both points: the line is always stopping when bags need to checked by the operator - it stops for periods of time as sometimes the operator gets assistance looking at a bag on the xray. The common sense is when the operator keeps the conveyor going so that bags pile up - be it businessmen, or i often notice mothers with children who have to gather up belongings for themselves and their children - or elderly people - you just create chaos for everyone.

Also, I didn't meant terrorists would attack a TSA position - I meant that based on what I see at multiple airports (never been to San Antonio), I would rather have clowns from the circus doing security. The folks are one step removed from McDonald's, except at McDonald's they get your order right and have some degree of professionalism.

The problem is that we're not trying. That's what all the complaints about security theater are about.

You may not be an amateur, but i can't say that about the majority of frontline TSA agents.

Oh, found a gem of a site...good for a few chuckles...

http://www.dba-oracle.com/travel_tsa_reform.htm

I agree. In my case I have to grab my laptop, the computer bag, carry on and my shoes. Oops... I ran out of hands. Computer goes in the bag ( it takes just a second) I stick the bag under my arms, grab the shoes and my carry on and walk over to where I can put the shoes on again. Care to make a guess as to how many airports do not have a suitable place to put your shoes back on?

And many of my problems have been when the TSA refuses to watch my laptop and bag as they send me to secondary for "continuous screening". Why is it so much trouble to grab an expensive lap top so that someone does not walk off with it? What has happened to the OP has happened to me countless times.

From a security stand point would it not make sense for TSA to take control of the property so that an accomplice does not grab it and get past security?

Perhaps the reason I misunderstood is because I better not catch an x-ray operator who fails to look at each image. That warrants an automatic walk behind the woodshed for a stern a**-chewing by yours truly. However, I do notice that the cause for delays the majority of the time are passengers who take their time retrieving their belongings. My whole point is that rather than blurting out a set of instructions, I think it's more efficient and certainly more courteous to actually help the passenger get started by taking them to the tables set aside for them. This is especially true with mothers traveling with children and having things like strollers, baby carriers and all the other baby-related logistics.

Don't know what to say about that. But you got your little dig in, so I guess you're satisfied.

Me? I'm never satisfied even when we perform well on the various tests that are run against us. I'm the stick-in-the-mud who brings up the points where we could have performed better.

Clone Bart
 

Hey Bart,

Can we clone you and have you conduct training at all of the large airports? :D

I think it is great that you encourage your screeners to look at things from the standpoint of a passenger. It would be great if all screeners did this and focused on customer service a bit.

With extensive US domestic and international travel, I know exactly how many of our visitors to the US feel and why many don't plan on returning anytime soon.

The way many US Immigrations and Customs officers act (i.e. crude and they don't really make you feel welcome) is also a problem with the TSA. Customer Service training can go a long way. With the US dollar so weak, the US is an excellent bargain, especially for Europeans - but we're not getting the # of visitors we could be.

I get a genuine feeling I am welcome when travelling to many other countries. Additionally, the security folks are often nice and helpful when going through security. It's not always the case when flying to the USA with the extra gate screenings, security interviews and such -- but if you look at travel to and within Asia / SE Asia, I feel like a welcome guest when travelling around the region by air.

I vote that we clone you to clean up the mess! What happened to the OP was way out of line. Proper training would result in a TSO approaching the passenger, asking what is wrong and how they can help -- not threatening one with arrest (which they don't even have the authority to do).

Kudos, Bart!

It's not a dig - it's a genuine concern that we are spending lots of money but not getting the protection we deserve. Bart, you sound like the model TSA worker. I can tell you I don't see many TSA folks like you in my travels.

Saying TSA workers are less competent than McDonald's employees isn't a dig?

:rolleyes:

We don't need to clone Bart, just to put him in charge of the TSA.

(Bart, stop shuddering ;) )

O/T:

:D Then the entire system becomes Bartworld(r)(tm)

In that case, my first suggestion would be to clean house at EWR. IMHO, EWR is the absolute worst TSA operation among the ~429 airports with commercial service. I hear Faux is even looking at a new reality show, similar to Cops -- but it's called "EWR TSA gone wild" :p

What a farce.

More TSA stupidity, glad it wasn't me. Looks like you did better.

OK - you got me - unfortunately in many instances the lack of focus on their job makes it true.

Could not agree more.

Well said ^


It's a real shame it has come to this. USA you really have taken the fun out of flying. Thanks :td:

Where he would be overwhelmed by the suits in Washington. He's fine where he is, especially since he finally seems to get that elsewhere things are very different. And not for the better.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, richard.

Brace yourself for a few choice thots aimed at the BAA. :-:

Whoever said that may have intended for it to be, but I hope that most people do not think so. Most McD front-line employees tough it out in a nasty working environment earning minimum wage. If a person is willing to put in elbow grease instead of being lazy and leech off of gov't, he/she has my kudos.

Every McD employee I've dealt with has been either friendly or indifferent. Never has one tried to intimidate me or pull rank on me. As a customer who pays for their service, I appreciate that. Not one has had a holier than thou attitude either, and this I dare not say for employees of most organizations I've dealt with.

To top that off, McD employees always give me what I paid for, and their food are great values for the price. If the product was flawed, I ask for it to be fixed and it is always fixed within 5-10 mins. This is not true with other organizations, which usually fail to train their employees to be efficient. If I ask for a manager, I get one within 5 minutes, and I've never had to escalate past a manager in order to get my problem fixed; never had to hit corporate level or write a letter, which again is not true of most other organizations. McD workers may not be happy with their job, but they're well-trained for their duties.

In fact, I doubt most organizations have had as much operational research analysis as McDs. Some of our gov't agencies can take a lesson or two.

I read somewhere that one out of seven U.S. workers has worked for McDonald's at one time in his or her life. If true, that's really an amazing fact -- and it reinforces the notion that we shouldn't be so condescending about them. They are us! And, of course, everyone must agree that McDonald's employees are reasonably helpful and polite, which is not true of many TSA employees, unfortunately. (Note that I did not say "most" in the previous sentence.)

Bruce

There seems to be a misconception here. Customer service is the smallest piece of any security gig's puzzle. The main part is SECURITY. Is it better to be polite? Yes. But, at the end of the day, anyone in any security capacity has to enforce rules and regulations, if not laws. They have to tell people "no."

They are not offering a service. They are not offering a product. They are enforcing rules, which is inherently confrontational. People don't like to be told no. TSA employees can only dictate HOW they say it, not the saying of it.

What Mickey Dee's person is telling anyone "no?"