FLYaway3x

A comprehensive article which is balanced to both sides of the issue presented... I recommend it be read before it goes to the archive...

Stereotyping security

FWAAA

A good article, and confirms what Dovster has told us about Israeli airport security. Jews typically get light treatment and Arabs get the most intensive full treatment. Others get treated somewhere in between.

GUWonder

Relative to a decade ago, the screening now causes more complaints from people that the Israeli government cares to court rather than alienate?

That is, even as complaint tracking would only partially reflect the situation, are there any statistics on the number of complaints about security screening and about who are submitting the complaints?

Spiff

I certainly would never complain about Israeli security...

... because I won't visit a country that treats its guests like the Israelis do.

I'll empty my wallet elsewhere, thanks all the same.

GUWonder

I think there are some places worth visiting even if it may require going through some nonsense .... and Israel is one of those places. Worse case, the over-the-top aspects will make for a good personal account/story to share.

(Reminds me, yet again, that there are some stories about bizarre airport "security" that I must share. )

Tony_B

I totally agree with Spiff here and this is also why I've reduced my flights to the USA from about 3-4 a year in the past to one (essential) trip a year...

FLYaway3x

You might not like Israeli security, but it is essential and there are plenty of other countries in which airport security is pointless and agressive.

By the way, if you want to be "treated worse" (for various reasons) than in Israel don't go to:
Italy
Germany (After all this time I loathe their obssession with "pat downs")
France
Canada
China
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Egypt
Libya
Algeria
Venezuela
Columbia
Malaysia
UAE
Qatar
Pakistan
The UK (which is actively profiling muslims)
Any former Soviet State
and on and on...

GUWonder

Been to all those places recently?

Given that I've been to all the named countries above several times over, I'm sure Spiff won't be getting the Israeli-"treatment" of "extended questioning and searches" based on his ethnicity in a majority of those countries anywhere near as often as would be the case with TLV.

In most of those places, the "security" doesn't even ask Americans anything at the airport, at least not more than locals of the dominant ethnicity.

Spiff

Concur.

I've been to half of the countries on that list and only the UK bothered to ask a bunch of stupid questions about how long I was going to stay. Canada seemed worried I was going to stay for a job when I told them I was there for business. The rest didn't care.

FLYaway3x

Here is a boring one:
I get to the airport 2 hours before a flight last week out of TLV, and because I completely over packed my bag they asked to open it.
The conversation was ride, abrasive, and tiring (it WAS 3:00am)
At the end, the security officer thanked me for my cooperation and I thanked him for putting my mind at ease.

Now a hilarious incident is below:

When my sister and I went for the first time in the 70s she was pulled aside for what was the equivalent of what I went through... While going through her toiletry bag, the very young and inexperienced officer (couldn't have been more than 22) pulled out a tampon, wove it around for all to see and said (abrasively) "What is this!" When I explained it to him he was horribly embarrassed...
...Now its a wonderful story to tell newcomers to our Passover Seder

By the way, Hebrew (like German) translates poorly into English and can sound downright aggressive. I often find this with newer security personnel at TLV, or even hotel workers, as they have less English-language experience. Older ones often seem to have a better grasp of a verbose language such as English and the intricacies of how using seemingly innocent words make it seem as if you are trying to be aggressive.

FLYaway3x

Its funny cause so much US security is pointless...

GUWonder

We don't call it "security"... we call it the dog and pony show, one put on by what someone referred to as the TSA workfarce "leadership".

FLYaway3x

Actually, I have been to MANY of those countries... The ones I haven't been to I cannot travel to because of either my religion or my Israeli stamps in my passport (if I am traveling on my main passport which has Visas in it which I need).

That being said, even with the second passport I have, I assure you that even an American with the last name ending in -Stein -Berg -Witz will cause your journey to be much less enjoyable.

A prime example is a friend of mine, the CEO of a company with a supplier in Dubai LOATHES his travel there as although he is a non-practicing Jew who has never been to Israel he nevertheless gets the third degree even though he travels to/from Dubai on the JFK-Emirates route in First Class every 2-3 months. He thinks the people there are the tops and it is a lovely place, but for some reason an idiotic policy made by a bureaucrat to stick it to Jews makes travel to there a pain. The same is not true in Israel where such policies create a significant financial hardship and it would be fabulous if they could be dropped tomorrow.

I should mention I have had the above problem in many of those countries I have listed (even when traveling on a second passport) and I simply refuse to travel to others such as Saudi Arabia.

Now as for regular countries, I find immigration to be downright intimidating in Italy, and I don't understand their need for big, big guns in their airports. Nevertheless, I love Italy and go there as often as I can. The French seem to adopt security policies at random. As for the Germans, I don't know about you but I don't like to be touched at least twice when I am trying to get to my flight at 6am. The Chinese seem to have no regard for visitors to their country, being authoritarian in their immigration policies. I could go on and on, but my point is we can talk about security till we are blue in the face but I won't accept the argument that Israel is the worst airport on earth in this manner because if Israel's neighbor's treated it with a little less anger, then perhaps traveling to the holy land would be easier for us all.

FLYaway3x

As much as I agree with you I think that the UK approach is better, which you may or may not prefer...

FLYaway3x

I just want to point out that this article was meant to bring to light the very real problem of balancing freedom and security in a society which is constantly under attack. Even the Jerusalem Post, a right-wing paper, acknowledges the dangers from the perspective of civil liberties. While no Israeli would say "Hey let's stick it to the Arabs because we can" they sadly are the ones who attempt to kill Jews. Therefore, nobody is going to waste as much time on an Israeli Jew, or an American Jew, or a gentile from the deep south as they are on a single 25 year old Arab male from Jenin with a one way ticket to Bangkok on El Al. It is a sad and terrible state of affairs but that's the way things are.

There seems to be a view that Israelis do this because they are cruel people. They aren't and would like to not have to. Sadly, they must profile to ensure that they can live safely. Such profiling has led to the drastic drop in homicide bombings (with the construction of the West Bank Fence) and the security of El Al.

El Al continues to face threats from the SAMs fired at a 757? in Africa to the recent plot to fire SAMs at LY aircraft in Switzerland. In both cases it wasn't Christian fundamentalists planning to bring down the jetliners.

It is worth mentioning that Hindawi's BRITISH girlfriend, who was pregnant and the stooge for his cowardly attack (he was not present on the flight she took) had less-than-kind words to say of her former fiancé at his most recent parole hearing. Ironically, she was on his "side" in her opinion of Israelis, Israeli Security, and the situation in the Middle East before hand. Needless to say she does thank El Al for saving her life and has had a drastic change in her worldview.