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-   -   Backscatter X-Ray at Phoenix is here (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/663646-backscatter-x-ray-phoenix-here.html)

rebadc Feb 22, 2007 7:58 pm

Backscatter X-Ray at Phoenix is here
 
According to news outlets TSA will start using the new Backscatter X-Ray machine on Friday.

txrus Feb 23, 2007 5:44 am

Anyone know which terminal? When this was discussed previously, it was thought to be terminal 4, but I'm sure, given TSA's penchant for (thinking they are ) keeping the terrorists guessing, that could have changed between then & now...

GeneralAviation Feb 23, 2007 5:59 am


Originally Posted by txrus (Post 7278394)
Anyone know which terminal? When this was discussed previously, it was thought to be terminal 4, but I'm sure, given TSA's penchant for (thinking they are ) keeping the terrorists guessing, that could have changed between then & now...



From the articles I've seen in the Phoenix media, the local of this
"strip-search" machine is security checkpoint B in Terminal 4.

doober Feb 23, 2007 6:42 am

The spin will be interesting
 
It will be interesting to read the spin the TSA puts on how the public accepts this invasion of privacy and I wonder if there will be a photo example on the unit so that victims will know how they will be seen in the back room.

FliesWay2Much Feb 23, 2007 6:59 am


Originally Posted by doober (Post 7278600)
It will be interesting to read the spin the TSA puts on how the public accepts this invasion of privacy and I wonder if there will be a photo example on the unit so that victims will know how they will be seen in the back room.

Don't worry -- they will send the Eyewitness News team out to MCO and will have no problem at all finding the "anything for security" and "I have nothing to hide" crowd. Then, the TSA Spokeshole will be interviewed with the same spin, proclaim it to be perfectly safe, and caution the sheople that they will be patted down if they refuse to be X-Ray'd.

Either don't dare watch the news today or hope that Britney does something really stupid before about 4:00pm.

txrus Feb 23, 2007 8:11 am

[QUOTE=FliesWay2Much;727866 Either don't dare watch the news today or hope that Britney does something really stupid before about 4:00pm.[/QUOTE]

They'll be too busy covering the latest in the Anna Nicole saga anyway...

LessO2 Feb 23, 2007 8:38 am

I heard on the news this morning that it's only for people who alarm the WTMD.

LessO2 Feb 23, 2007 10:30 am

The last sentence in the story tells it all
 
"The X-ray technology was developed for prisons."

mwarden Feb 23, 2007 10:48 am


Originally Posted by LessO2 (Post 7279213)
I heard on the news this morning that it's only for people who alarm the WTMD.

That only applies between 4pm-9pm on MWF when Bob is manning the post.

txrus Feb 23, 2007 11:08 am


Originally Posted by LessO2 (Post 7279898)

Well, the TSA thinks we're all criminals anyway because we bought a plane ticket...

Landing Gear Feb 23, 2007 12:15 pm

TSA Press Release Today
 
[I do not work for the TSA. Please do not flame me.]

TSA Unveils Backscatter Technology Testing at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport

PHOENIX, Feb. 23 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) today unveiled an operational test to evaluate backscatter technology at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport (PHX). This new technology can detect weapons, explosives and other metallic and non-metallic threat items concealed under layers of clothing without physical contact, and TSA has applied multiple protections for passengers' privacy.

"Privacy and security are not mutually exclusive, and backscatter has potential to be a valuable tool in our layered security approach," said TSA Administrator Kip Hawley. "There will be opportunity for continued public dialogue as we see how this technology works in the airport setting."

During test operations, passengers will participate on a voluntary basis only. In addition to usual effectiveness and suitability assessments, TSA will examine operational issues, including throughput, privacy considerations, training, safety of use and perceptions by the traveling public.

Passengers volunteering to participate in the operational test will be asked to stand for two separate scans, one facing the system and one facing away. A Transportation Security Officer will guide the passenger through the process, and each scan will take less than 10 seconds. The entire screening process will take less than a minute.

TSA's privacy-filtered image looks like a chalk outline of the person's body, and shows any concealed items including weapons, explosives and other metallic and non-metallic threat items. The officer attending the passenger will not view the image, and as an additional measure, the officer viewing the image will be remotely located and unable to associate the image with the passenger being screened. Once viewed remotely, the image cannot be stored, transmitted or printed.

X-ray backscatter technology uses a narrow, low intensity x-ray beam, scanned over the body's surface at high speed. The amount of x-ray radiation used for backscatter technology is equivalent to approximately 15 minutes of exposure to naturally-occurring background radiation from sources such as the sun's rays.

For more information about backscatter, please visit our Web site at http://www.tsa.gov/.

Media Contact: TSA Public Affairs, 571-227-2829


Source: Transportation Security Administration


CONTACT: TSA Public Affairs, +1-571-227-2829

Web site: http://www.tsa.gov/

amejr999 Feb 23, 2007 12:27 pm

Look at the pictures on the TSA homepage at http://www.tsa.gov and then look at the photos at http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/screen...ckscatter.shtm. Apparently TSA can't decide what exactly will be shown. Groan.

skAAtinsteph Feb 23, 2007 12:33 pm

Just remember it's optional and you can choose to have the standard pat down instead.

red456 Feb 23, 2007 12:51 pm


Originally Posted by skAAtinsteph (Post 7280729)
Just remember it's optional and you can choose to have the standard pat down instead.

I can't find it now, but there was a long article on cbsnews.com that IIRC implied that at some point in time its use would become mandatory.

GoGiants Feb 23, 2007 1:38 pm

From Yahoo News:
Rep. Harry Mitchell, D-Ariz., viewed the machine in use at the airport Friday and said privacy concerns have been addressed because the screening is voluntary.
"It does provide a higher level of security," Mitchell said. "Hopefully it will speed the process up. The fact is that we want to be efficient.


I wonder if Rep. Mitchell would be saying the same thing if a TSA agent was looking at the image of his wife or mother.

uswest33 Feb 23, 2007 1:56 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 7278660)
Don't worry -- they will send the Eyewitness News team out to MCO and will have no problem at all finding the "anything for security" and "I have nothing to hide" crowd. Then, the TSA Spokeshole will be interviewed with the same spin, proclaim it to be perfectly safe, and caution the sheople that they will be patted down if they refuse to be X-Ray'd.

Either don't dare watch the news today or hope that Britney does something really stupid before about 4:00pm.

It's already starting....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/..._ray_screening

Quote from a passenger: Passenger Kristen Rodgers, 22, of Little Rock, Ark., who did not go through the screening, likened it to going to the doctor.

"If you tell yourself they have to look at that all day long, it makes yourself feel better," Rodgers said. "If it's just for security, just for 45 seconds, I think it would be worth catching somebody with something harmful

Wally Bird Feb 23, 2007 1:58 pm


"Privacy and security are not mutually exclusive..." said TSA Administrator Kip Hawley.
Must be a different Kip Hawley.

KleineFrau Feb 23, 2007 2:10 pm


Originally Posted by skAAtinsteph (Post 7280729)
Just remember it's optional and you can choose to have the standard pat down instead.

Being seen naked with the help of an x-ray (for frequent travelers, that cannot be good on purely an exposure level) or felt up. Gee, how do I choose?

LessO2 Feb 23, 2007 2:46 pm


Originally Posted by Rep. Harry Mitchell
"....the screening is voluntary."


So was shoe removal. :td:

doober Feb 23, 2007 3:18 pm

MSNBC: backscatter images MIGHT be stored after test period
 
Today we are being told that the filtered images taken by the backscatter are being immediately destroyed.

However, MSNBC reporter Tom Costello says that there is concern that after the test period, the TSA will begin storing the unfiltered scans.

Nope, no privacy issues here. :rolleyes:

GeneralAviation Feb 23, 2007 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by uswest33 (Post 7281131)
It's already starting....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/..._ray_screening

Quote from a passenger: Passenger Kristen Rodgers, 22, of Little Rock, Ark., who did not go through the screening, likened it to going to the doctor.

"If you tell yourself they have to look at that all day long, it makes yourself feel better," Rodgers said. "If it's just for security, just for 45 seconds, I think it would be worth catching somebody with something harmful


What an idiot. My doctor is a professional, someone I trust.
The TSA is neither.

The Interstate looks better and better all the time.

doober Feb 23, 2007 3:30 pm


Originally Posted by uswest33 (Post 7281131)

Quote from a passenger: Passenger Kristen Rodgers, 22, of Little Rock, Ark., who did not go through the screening, likened it to going to the doctor.

...

Easy enough to find her address - somebody needs to sit down and write her a letter explaining the facts of life.

Droneklax Feb 23, 2007 10:14 pm

Unbelievable.

http://www.drudgereport.com/xray.jpg

Please. I can see the guy's testicles.

I would like to know when this craziness is going to stop, and how long the American people are going to put up with it.

This is a country that has a hissie fit when a tit shows up on TV, but that is willing to be stripped naked in front of total strangers in the name of "security".

Dear USA: At some point, you lose your pride and what you stand for.

P.S.: I'll gladly write "Kip Hawley is an idiot", in metallic paint on my chest, for their enjoyment.

hiltonhead Feb 24, 2007 7:12 am


Originally Posted by Droneklax (Post 7283882)
Unbelievable.

http://www.drudgereport.com/xray.jpg

Please. I can see the guy's testicles.

I would like to know when this craziness is going to stop, and how long the American people are going to put up with it.

This is a country that has a hissie fit when a tit shows up on TV, but that is willing to be stripped naked in front of total strangers in the name of "security".

Dear USA: At some point, you lose your pride and what you stand for.

P.S.: I'll gladly write "Kip Hawley is an idiot", in metallic paint on my chest, for their enjoyment.


I believe your link goes to a description of the older model that was rejected. The newer models, as shown in the posts above, show only a chalk outline..not unlike that on "etch-a-sketch". But that seems to not be the real issue here. The fact that they are doing it at all will cause most here to discount any method offered, no matter how unintrusive the technology is. Only in America will people lift their shirts during Mardi Gras and Girls Gone Wild, go on Jerry Springer and talk about their lesbian dog's affair with their cousin, post disgusting or provocative pictures on MySpace and YouTube...and then complain about a chalk outline of their body discretely viewed by a same sex security agent after they have alarmed at the airport. Gotta love it. If a chalk outline of your one's body is a source of concern, try this: http://www.bowflex.com

GUWonder Feb 24, 2007 7:25 am

The Indian government has rejected this nonsense and have decided their one virtual stripsearch device has no place in the process of screening the flying public as a condition to fly from Indian airports. ^^

msv Feb 24, 2007 7:46 am

Perhaps they should keep the high-resolution model and deny boarding to anyone with a blood clot.

msv

Droneklax Feb 24, 2007 8:03 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead (Post 7285069)
If a chalk outline of your one's body is a source of concern, try this: http://www.bowflex.com

Actually, that didn't even cross my mind. FYI, I hit the gym four times a week and today is chest day, since you asked. My chalk outline against yours, buddy.:rolleyes:

I made the point about America's bipolar attitude in my post.

I find it disconcerting that you do not see how intrusive and pointless this is.

Incidentally: Bowflex, huh? LOL. Hope it works out for you.^

Cholula Feb 24, 2007 8:12 am


Originally Posted by Droneklax (Post 7283882)
I would like to know when this craziness is going to stop, and how long the American people are going to put up with it.


Evidently not until the Kool-Aid drinking travelers like this lady wise-up:


"It seems faster. I'm not uncomfortable with it," said Kelsi Dunbar, 25, of Seattle, who chose the machine. "I trust TSA, and I trust that they are definitely trying to make things go quickly and smoothly in the airport.
Here’s a link to today’s full story.

hiltonhead Feb 24, 2007 8:36 am


Originally Posted by Droneklax (Post 7285206)
Actually, that didn't even cross my mind. FYI, I hit the gym four times a week and today is chest day, since you asked. My chalk outline against yours, buddy.:rolleyes:

I made the point about America's bipolar attitude in my post.

I find it disconcerting that you do not see how intrusive and pointless this is.

Incidentally: Bowflex, huh? LOL. Hope it works out for you.^

1) Actually, I was only showing the bipolar attitude moving in the opposite direction...and pointing out that your link was inaccurate.

2) I'm glad that you find time to work out daily, more Americans should do so. Sorry you took the post personal, but at least we all now know that you are proud of your chalk outline.

3) I do not see that it is intruive at all. It is not mandatory, only comes into play when alarms are activated, and shows a chalk outline.

4) I don't use Bowflex either, but it was easy to spell and served the purpose of discussion.

5) If you don't agree with a post, simply state that...thumping your chest, challenges, "double-dog dares", and personal attacks are usually ignored.

GUWonder Feb 24, 2007 9:16 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead (Post 7285315)
1) Actually, I was only showing the bipolar attitude moving in the opposite direction...and pointing out that your link was inaccurate.

2) I'm glad that you find time to work out daily, more Americans should do so. Sorry you took the post personal, but at least we all now know that you are proud of your chalk outline.

3) I do not see that it is intruive at all. It is not mandatory, only comes into play when alarms are activated, and shows a chalk outline.

4) I don't use Bowflex either, but it was easy to spell and served the purpose of discussion.

5) If you don't agree with a post, simply state that...thumping your chest, challenges, "double-dog dares", and personal attacks are usually ignored.

When it shows who has a tampon or is using a sanitary pad, it's not personal? :eek:

Wally Bird Feb 24, 2007 9:26 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead (Post 7285315)
It is not mandatory, only comes into play when alarms are activated...

It is not mandatory because it is in the test phase. If it 'passes' the test, it will become mandatory. It has no chance of 'failing' the test. It will be mandatory.

Droneklax Feb 24, 2007 9:28 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead (Post 7285315)
1) Actually, I was only showing the bipolar attitude moving in the opposite direction...and pointing out that your link was inaccurate.

2) I'm glad that you find time to work out daily, more Americans should do so. Sorry you took the post personal, but at least we all now know that you are proud of your chalk outline.

3) I do not see that it is intruive at all. It is not mandatory, only comes into play when alarms are activated, and shows a chalk outline.

4) I don't use Bowflex either, but it was easy to spell and served the purpose of discussion.

5) If you don't agree with a post, simply state that...thumping your chest, challenges, "double-dog dares", and personal attacks are usually ignored.

There was no more personal attack in my post than there was in your bowflex taunt.

Setting this little testosterone moment aside, let me make my point a different way.

1-Things are crawling in the wrong direction, a millimeter at a time, in increments of "it's temporary", 'it's only voluntary", "it's only for people who fail this other test","it's not intrusive".

2- This is a wild goose chase fueled by a perfect storm of fear, incompetence, stupidity and last but not least, corporate greed. I GARANTEE you that I can board an aircraft today with ten ceramic knives on me. Garanteed. I bet you a million dollars. Wanna know how I do it? It's not that hard. This country has spent countless billions of dollars since 9/11, AND I CAN STILL BOARD AN AIRCRAFT WITH 10 CERAMIC KNIVES ON ME.

So if you think for a second that this fancy kiddie porn disrobing device will prevent someone from doing what they want to do, I disagree.

Do you see that?

Wally Bird Feb 24, 2007 9:33 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead (Post 7285069)
Only in America will people lift their shirts during Mardi Gras and Girls Gone Wild, go on Jerry Springer and talk about their lesbian dog's affair with their cousin, post disgusting or provocative pictures on MySpace and YouTube...and then complain about a chalk outline of their body being viewed...

I doubt those of us doing the complaining have done any of the things you cite. I haven't, my wife hasn't and neither of us will be subjecting ourselves to your latest enhanced security show (in all senses of the word) .

jason8612 Feb 24, 2007 9:34 am

http://www.atnuke.com/nuclear/shielding/leadaprons.html :)

VideoPaul Feb 24, 2007 9:43 am

I'm a cancer survivor that has CT scans twice a year and has had literally dozens in the past 7 years I have been dealing with this and I now avoid the sun and all forms of radiation that I can. There's no way in hell I am going to allow anyone to expose me to X-radiation that doesn't have my oncologist's approval. This will be interesting, because I have already let my employer know that I will not enter one of these devices and if that means I don't fly that day, they are going to have to buy me bus tickets instead.

--PP

Droneklax Feb 24, 2007 9:52 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 7285549)
I doubt those of us doing the complaining have done any of the things you cite.

Assuming even that you did, I see a slight difference between flashing from a New Orleans balcony out of your free will, and being coerced into it by a governmental entity.

rebadc Feb 24, 2007 10:06 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead (Post 7285069)
I believe your link goes to a description of the older model that was rejected. The newer models, as shown in the posts above, show only a chalk outline..not unlike that on "etch-a-sketch". But that seems to not be the real issue here. The fact that they are doing it at all will cause most here to discount any method offered, no matter how unintrusive the technology is. Only in America will people lift their shirts during Mardi Gras and Girls Gone Wild, go on Jerry Springer and talk about their lesbian dog's affair with their cousin, post disgusting or provocative pictures on MySpace and YouTube...and then complain about a chalk outline of their body discretely viewed by a same sex security agent after they have alarmed at the airport. Gotta love it. If a chalk outline of your one's body is a source of concern, try this: http://www.bowflex.com


Old images from another company not even the same equipment manafacturer.

The phoenix Backscatter machine is made by AS&E.
The images you reference are from the rapidscan machine (military application)

You people need to get your facts straight.

rebadc Feb 24, 2007 10:09 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 7285100)
The Indian government has rejected this nonsense and have decided their one virtual stripsearch device has no place in the process of screening the flying public as a condition to fly from Indian airports. ^^

Again the Indian government was using the equipment from Rapidscan using un-filtered images.

TSA is using filtered images from another company.

Lets get the facts straight.

doober Feb 24, 2007 10:58 am

This is a "chalk outline"? I don't think so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/24/us/24scan.html?hp

Xyzzy Feb 24, 2007 11:09 am

That NY Times article has an absurd quote:

Aviation security officials are rushing to bring new screening devices to airports because of the London-based plot last summer to use liquid explosives to blow up airliners headed to the United States.
Who are the sheeple who write and believe this stuff? What does this newfangled X-Ray machine have to do with the liquid-explosive nonsense? Nothing!


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