Superguy

Call me a skeptic then lol. I don't doubt there are regulations. I just have a hard time believing that normal packages aren't being carried on commercial flights somehow.

I'm aware that they deal with FedEx ... I see the drop offs at the post office. The packages I got were bigger than 16 oz though. Not huge boxes, but they weren't small either.

So what if it's more difficult? Why should that get a free pass?

Cargojon

JakiChan

Cisco/Pac Bell Internet (they wouldn't explain who it was) screwed up and sent me a wrong part. (A Sup II instead of a Sup II+ for a Cat 4500) and this was a major problem. So PBI got me the part I needed - it was shipped same day and the box had United Airlines stickers on it. It came up on a regular LAX/SFO flight. I picked it up at the airport. It wasn't passenger luggage. Not a small part, chock full of electronics.

bocastephen

Incorrect - individuals can and do ship through air cargo quite frequently - either via freight forwarders or by going to the cargo office of their airline. I guess you've never been to MIA where people show up at the airport with 500 cans of tuna fish and 19 televisions. There are also 'direct counter' products from various airlines which permit you to ship a small package or envelope 'counter to counter'. In addition, companies use air cargo and 'counter DASH' (Delta's name for it) services quite frequently, especially IT suppliers like HP/Compaq - I know this for a fact, as we often receive parts which have been flown to us on the next flight and we use flight schedules to make sure HP/Compaq isn't lying to us about when our package is expected to arrive. Who takes the box to the airport? A superduperqualifiedsecurityscreenedloyalAmerican? No...just the poor shmuck hired to drive parts from the nearest distribution center to the airport.
yeah, yeah "not at liberty to discuss" - many of us are also in the aviation business or connected to it and we have access to these rules directly or indirectly. There is no such thing as 'random' cargo - all cargo is accounted for, but not all cargo is opened, checked or screened. The vast majority of boxes and containers are unchecked before being loaded.

If any kind of device were to be placed on board, it could come from any source - international or domestic. More risk from international source? Sure. No risk from domestic? Hogwash. There is significant risk from domestic cargo and virtually none of that risk is being addressed - then again, perhaps you're expertise is sufficient to override the concern Congress, industry groups, the FAA and even TSA has about cargo in general.

Yeah...right...cool. If I fly from FLL to SEA every week on the same flights and have done so for years, there is no reason to screen me at the airport...after all, if I didn't blow up/hijack my last 300+ flights, I wouldn't be choosing the next one for my attack, now would I?

Unscreened cargo is a MAJOR security risk right now - and saying 'we don't have the resources' is just a ridiculous response.

Cargojon

The amount of just plain "not knowing what you're talking about" in your post is pretty friggin obvious to someone who knows the industry...but since you think you know something, allow me to correct you. I'll try to hit everything, but given the amount if mis-information in your post, I might miss something.

1. Individuals do not and can not put cargo on a passenger airplane. It's simply not legal. They are able to tender shipments to IATA-approved freight forwarders, who are under tight restriction as to whose freight they are abe to tender to passenger airlines and whose freight must fly on cargo-only aircraft. MIA is one of the leading airports in the country of all-cargo airlines, and I guarantee you that's what your 19 TV's are going on.

2. You say "companies" use Dash product and similar. Yes, "companies" can do that. Individuals cannot. And there are rules as to which companies can and cannot do it. Can't get more specific than that. When HP/Intel/Compaq/IBM/etc. sends you a part, well....yes, they are a company who is permitted to ship via passenger airplanes.

3. Oh, and the guy who is driving the air cargo from the warehouse to the airport? Yeah, actually, he's not just some poor schmuck. He's actually had to get a background check done similar to the guy working for the airlines in the sterile area, same as the guy working for the freight forwarder. I know, I've had one. Want to see my TSA letter?

4. Finally, as far as me "knowing more" than Congress, the TSA, the FAA, etc. Actually, the driving force behind additional passenger airline restrictions is Congress. Know why? Because it sounds good on TV to misinformed individuals such as yourself who think that Tom, Dick, and Harry are going to bomb your airplanes with their cargo that we just whisk through without thinking about it. It's a good political sound-bite which looks good come re-election time. Do I know more about my industry than a Congressman? You bet. I do it every day, I've been doing it for a long time, and I have a hell of a lot of training, education, and certifications/licenses. As far as the TSA goes, I meet regulary with representatives of the TSA, who "off the record" comment that they are quite happy with the security measures in place and that Congress wants to look busy by continuing to burden American commerce with silly, one-size-fits-all, "security" measures that sounds good on CNN.

The same people that complain and ..... mightily about being screened at the airport, seem to think it's fine to hamper the economic function of our companies by needlessless and haphazardly restricting cargo on passenger flights further than they already are. If that's not a severe case of NIMBY, I don't know what one is.


ETA: http://www.delta.com/business_progra...ices/index.jsp

Cargo Products & Services
Regulatory changes, following September 11th, require all Delta cargo weighing more than 16 ounces be tendered only by:

Known Shippers: if your company ships at least six times a year, submit a Known Shipper Request form online and allow 2–3 weeks for completion of all screening requirements.


Indirect Air Carriers: for details on approval to tender cargo as an indirect air carrier, contact your area representative.

Note: With the exception of pets that can be visually inspected, shipments by individuals are no longer accepted on Delta passenger aircraft.

bzbdewd

and that would be you........? Hmmm

Cargojon

I'm sure that PBI is qualified under TSA regulations to ship on a passenger airline. Again, it wasn't Tom, Dick, or Harry sending it to. Companies have to meet specific security guidelines in order to ship via passenger planes.

Cargojon

What licensures, training, experience, etc. do you possess? Because I can assure you I have quite a bit of each. Not to be a pompous arse, but if you have 10 years IT experience, a bunch of Microsoft certifications, and a degree in IT, I'm not going to argue the finer points of programming with you.

stimpy

I'm certainly no expert in the ridiculous security rules that plague us these days. However I am a bit of an expert in the reality of how they are applied. I have, as an employee of a company, shipped items through a freight forwarder on commercial aircraft. Most recently on an AA flight out of LAX. I wasn't told about any security issues, nor have I applied for any security permits. I may very well have signed some small print saying that I'm not shipping anything dangerous and of course there was a manifest, but no questions were asked and no examination of the good were made.

Cargojon

Your employer however, has, whether they know it or not.

docmonkey

And how does that make it safe?

Cargojon

I'd explain it to you, however in all honestly I can't.

Think of it like an airline employee who would explain internal airline workings, but cannot due to security requirements.

Unfortunately, the general public is not aware (for security reasons) of the security measures in place in the cargo world. What this results in, is people believing that little to no security measures are in place because of ignorance caused by the sensitive nature of the security measures.

bocastephen

Oh really? I can guarantee you that I can go to almost any airline and ship something directly. As a matter of fact, here is a direct link to one such airline I've considered - Alaska. While their freighter-only service is exempt from TSA requirements, shipments by individuals are to be made by 'known shippers'. How does one become a "known shipper" you ask? Easy. Fill out and submit this form: http://alaskacargo.custhelp.com/cgi-...015567&p_olh=0
When the form is completed, they do a quick check and voila - you get a customer ID number (mainly for billing) and you're listed with Alaska as a 'known shipper'. What are the chances a 'known shipper' could be planning something nefarious? A reasonably intelligent person would agree this process is full empty BS. By the way - what is the official definition of a known shipper?

Known Shippers are businesses or individuals that ship their own products weighing 16 ounces or more.

So, an individual, small business or large corporation could apply (easily) to be a known shipper. What a great security measure this is The designation is most certainly not restricted to large businesses or specialists, as you claim.

Wrong again. Anyone can apply to be a known shipper, therefore anyone can use DASH or any of Delta's cargo services - or the services of any other airline.

Ummm sure. I've met plenty of these transport drivers and a basic background check means nothing. Actually, they do not need a background check - there is no requirement (enforceable) which states a package must be physically received from a known shipper, only 'shipped by' that known shipper. What does this mean? HP/Compaq uses 'just in time' courier drivers to pick up and deliver these time-critical packages - these are the same people who would pick up a package and deliver it across town for me. Nothing special.
Ahhh now we get to the meat of your complaint - WE are interfering with YOUR business by demanding all packages loaded on board passenger aircraft be screened for the presence of explosives and other dangerous materials. This is a burden on your business, so you don't want it and want us to buy into the argument that the status quo is perfectly safe. Do you have a cousin named Kip?

bocastephen

Oh good grief... groan! Security requirements blah blah. You must think everything really is a secret.

stimpy

Do you realize how pointless the above statement is? I can tell you that my employer does not knowingly involve itself with this nonsense. And if they unknowingly did, who cares? Any security agency *could* have secretly investigated my company, but again, so what? I still could have shipped something dangerous on board the AA flight and there was no mechanism to stop me. That is the point of this argument (I think).