Flyertalk: Call to Action
 

Here's what I'm going to do:

Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.), who's one my state's reps, sits on both the Aviation Subcommittee and the House Committee for Homeland Security. He's the kind of rep who will listen to credible reports and try to act on it.

I'm going to email him, telling him who I am, that I'm a member of the Internet community of Flyertalk (explaining what that is) and inform him about some of the ridiculous things that have been confiscated from us Flyertalkers over the weekend.

What I'm asking from you all is to please post here (I really, really would prefer not to get emails on this) the details of what's been taken from you: item, airport, date of incident, which security checkpoint this occurred, and any other details you think relevant. I'll compile them into a letter on behalf of Flyertalkers who would like to voluntarily contribute their experiences.

I'd particularly like to hear from the gentleman who had his condoms taken, ladies who've had mascara and crystal deoderant taken, anyone regarding gel-type sport shoes or orthothics, and anything else that's clearly not on the prohibited list.

I kindly ask that you not b.s. me. In other words, please be on the level and be willing to be contacted yourself.

"Let's Roll."

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essxjay
Portland, Oregon

I'll volunteer my wife's story. At IAD around 10:20 a.m. yesterday, wherever the elite line at the UA end of the terminal dumped her out at the checkpoint, she had a crystal deodorant stone confiscated despite explaining to the screener that it was neither a liquid or gel, and the screener verifying this by examination.

As she is already planning to include this in her own letter to our local elected reps, I am pretty sure she'd be willing to be contacted by Rep. DeFazio's office, but I'll run that by her later today when I talk to her to double-check.

essxjay, I think this can be a good idea, but just make sure that the information about confiscations that you forward on is going to look unreasonable to a disinterested, objectively reasonable person. If you have any doubt, I wouldn't include it.

I've written three letters so far (to Senators Lieberman and Dodd and my Congressman). My focus has been on the chilling effect that these restrictions, if they persist long term (a key component to making yourself sound reasonable, IMO) will have on business travel and that it could end up adversly affecting the airlone industry and, in turn, our local businesses (including my employer) that rely on a (somewhat) healthy airline industry for their well being.

Next week, I am definitely travelling to West Virginia, maybe to California. I intend to have my normal toiletries bag in my carryon. If TSA makes me dump out my soap, toothpaste, antiperspirant, eyedrops, etc., I will ask the supervisor to sign an IOU that I will be repaid for the items confiscated.

Furthermore, I intend to contact my two Senators in Washington, for whom I have volunteered in the past, and convey to them my outrage that normal Americans cannot carry personal hygiene items onto domestic flights. We all need to express our thoughts and emotions to our elected leaders, or else nothing will change. I am sanguine enough to realize that even if every FT'er contact every elected member of Congress, odds are overwhelming that nothing would change. However, we need to make our voices heard so that politicians do not think we are a nation of Chicken Littles.

I want to see what happens when members of Congress return from their recess and have to experience this nonsense. Oh, and we are a nation of Chicken Littles. No need to pretend.

Bruce

Bruce,

There are many Chicken Littles, but not everyone in the United States is. Hard to believe this is the same country that fought Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan simultaneously and won.

If I get really bored one day I may write. I wrote to my elected representatives two years ago on the idiocy of the TSA. All I got in response was paranoia, basically saying "but they're out to get us and the TSA will save us".

Most members of Congress are morons, so this didn't surprise me. In addition, I live in a stupid redneck hick state, where paranoia and hate run rampant.

Yes, very hard to believe. You can really understand why true "warrior" types (like Bart, for instance) sometimes seem so contemptuous of the general public.

Bruce

Unfortunately, they will not be hit as hard as the business traveller since they already have duplicate toothpaste, deoderant, mouthwash, makeup, etc., at their second residences in Washington. All they will notice is that they cannot bring drinks, lotion, and lip balm (and maybe some makeup for some of the females).

You really might want to check with Randy before you start making this claim, you are not an FT representative (as FT is a business) and inferring so might lead to some problems.

Also without the corporate stuff, you do NOT speak for all of us, myself included, so again you may want to temper your wording. I personally just dont have an issue with all this, and to claim we are all upset is wrong.

Dont get me wrong, before I start getting flamed, I dont believe this is all making us any safer and find it silly, but it does not have my panties in a bunch like it does most of you. Fine I put my stuff in my checked bag, no big woop. If I lose something, fine I can get it at my destination. I just cant see getting this worked up over shampoo and toothpaste. There are people starving in the world, there are kids dying of terrible diseases, we are killing innocent civilians daily in Iraq, having to use the hotel provided shampoo just does not compare in my world.

And I think beyond FT and the over the top personalities here I think you will find most of the world feels this way too, this is just not something to bother becoming an activist about, there is a lot more than matters in the world!!!

It sounds all very well, but I have noticed in my journeys through life that the man who won't stand up for his own freedoms certainly won't stand up for mine. I would be very surprised that the man who stands quietly while his wife's contact lens solution is snatched is doing anything of value to feed the hungry of Kenya. People who always find an excuse not to lift a finger...always find an excuse not to lift a finger.

I didn't travel this weekend, so I can't contribute to the list of outrages. What I will do is fax a letter to my representatives and my airline pointing out the chilling effect on the economy and on the right of free travel caused by these restrictions. It seems little enough to do.

Well if there is doubt I do work on feeding the hungry around the world (sit on the exec committee of a national philanthropic organization and give to many others). But maybe that is why I find the outrage on here so crazy. There are SO MUCH bigger battles to fight in the world, I cant get worked up over soap and toothpaste.

However I do agree on pointing out to our representatives the effect on the economy and the airlines overall. But if my senator has time to sit and worry about me having to use the hotels shampoo then they are CERTAINLY not doing their job.

Same here. I agree with this. ^

Secondly, if you are going to do this email is not the way. Send a fax. That is the only sure-fire way to get it to someone.

I would like to opt out of you representing me to anyone. Please include this in your letter.

Cool to see how you compare this letter you are writing to the heroic acts of some of the victims of 9/11...I think they are about the same too and not a gross overestimation of your own importance at all.

Who elected you to do this? You do not represent me. Please do not pretend to.

There are many more important issues in the world right now... Murders in Sudan, oil/gas prices, the Middle East conflicts...

Learn to adapt to the new TSA rules. If you do not like them, then do not fly. Flying is NOT a right.

Calm down people, I am willing to bet that essxjay knows the limits of who he represents and who he does not. He is just looking for examples to cite. I doubt that he would write,

"I represent all of FT, except of course for Lehava, mbtsu, and UMassCanuck07, who support these restrictions." Incidentally, is that a confirmation that Canucks are part of the U.S. as I always suspected? :):):)

If we keep this just to posting examples of over-reaction on the part of TSA from people who are willing to confirm them in a letter to Congress, it is a meaningful thread, otherwise it it heading straight to OMNI.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thoſe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchaſe a little Temporary Safety, deſerve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson to be the primary author of the book. Confer this link http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjami...isattributions

Whoever wrote/spoke this sentence embodied the former American spirit. As noted in earlier posts, the United States is becoming a nation of Chicken Littles who lack both backbones and common sense. :td: :( :td:

HAHA!! I went to college in the US and work here now, so I fly mostly out of the US so it does effect me. But no way in hell are are or will we ever be a part of the US!

It does not matter if you fly daily for business or once a year with grandma and grandpa to Orlando... everyone who fly's get an opinion. Don't you live in the US? Doesn't everyone have a right to have an opinion on everything??? Just because I am a male, I can have an opinion on abortion, right?

franklin was in the midst of a revolution, we have to check our bags and take our shoes off!! where is your common sense?

according to his post, he does not know the limitations of whom he represents. i suppose i can just write a letter to his rep also and tell him that i represent flyertalk as well and offer him my viewpoint. so i guess it is a moot point then.

I don't have opinions on things which I know little to nothing about. People who don't fly regularly don't know what it is like to fly regularly and how these additional restrictions can result in massive lost time for these people. They don't know what they are talking about.

Note that I didn't say people who fly regularly have to have the same opinion. A regular traveler who agrees with these restrictions carries a lot more weight than a once a year flyer who disagrees with them.

Do you seriously expect them to sign an IOU? If they refuse, will you refuse to fly then? How far are you willing to go with this? Probably not that far, I suspect.

I just came through SFO international security in what must be the fastest I've ever got through here (less than 5 mins). Qantas handed out a list of prohibited items at the check-in counter so you wouldn't be surprised. I didn't need to repack a thing as I came prepared. I'm not particularly bothered with this liquid and gel ban.

Two of our company officers are Canucks and it's practically become a tradition around our office to tease them on every possible occasion. They take it in good humor -- or is that humour?

Dick

Oh trust me, I am used to it!

However, I just love it and feel some revenge when Americans ask me questions (in all honesty) like.... Did you drive a dogsled to school? and Do you have running water?.... I have been asked these questions and so many more by Americans and they were not joking.

I might be more supportive of the new rules if I was an infrequent traveller, and these measures only amounted to a couple of extra hours for me each year...and perhaps not even that b/c I usually check bags on long vacations anyway. However, the business traveller will have at least an hour (if not much more) added to each business trip waiting for checked bags that were once allowed as carryon. If this keeps up, it could easily eat up days of time for each business traveller each year.

We are in the midst of a revolution. Under the guise of fighting terrorism, our rights as Americans are being eroded. Did anyone else note the opinion from the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit upholding searches on subways? So much for privacy and the Fourth Amendment for ordinary Americans.

Not sure I understand what you are talking about. I said nothing about security lines. I am solely referring to baggage checkin and baggage claim, two things that I and other business travellers usually do not do but now will have to with the ban on toothpaste, mouthwash, and other toiletries.

Refusing to sign an IOU could set up a lawsuit. International travel entering the United States is a far different matter than domestic travel within the United States. It is insulting that Americans cannot bring ordinary toiletries on domestic flights because of the actions of some Islamowackos in the UK. There has to be a better way...

wow...where can i get my musket?

your privacy ends at my right to protect myself. aka, your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. if want to share a plane with me, you lose many of your rights.

sorry, nothing, ever, ever, ever is going to change that. no matter how many revolutionary heros you quote.

I just sent this to my Congresscritters. And I don't appreciate the comments that some people made that infrequent travelers don't deserve an opinion on this issue. I'm an infrequent traveler (no more than 4-6 segments a year, in general), and I deserve the right to make comments about the waste of my tax dollars, my eroding civil liberties, and an unrestrained government bureaucracy. BTW, please don't send my letter, it's much more useful if you write your own. This only took me about 10 minutes, anyway.

We as a nation are in trouble if that is our mindset. My wnating to avoid being searched and having personal toiletries confiscated by the government is far different than me swinging my fist in your direction.

By the way, how do you feel about sitting on tons of cargo that has not been screened?

Let me get this straight -- our rights can be rendered null and void if mbtmsu says so. Got it. :rolleyes:

Good letter, but unfortunately puffers will not detect innocuous components that could be assembled into explosives past the checkpoint. TSA should focus more on people, be less concerned about things. However, screening cargo to the same degree as passengers and their checked bags would be an improvement.

essxjay, go for it. That there are worse problems is no reason to avoid tackling the ones that grab your passion and energy.

Erosion of rights through just plain silly responses to serious threats is a serious issue, IMO.

We would be so much better off is the all money, time and brain power that is going into silly responses were going into more intelligent and practical ones. To exclude all these items now is the classic case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. If the pattern that is emerging from these hind-sighted rule making frenzies is continued, we will, indeed, one day be x-rayed, de-nuded, and hand-cuffed to our seats for the duration of our flights.

Someone, some group will eventually cover all the bases in trying to bring down aircraft. We will lose some. Best we all acknowledge that now - we are not completely safe and never can be. But we need to live with some dignity, freedom and courage in the midst of all of this nonsense, IMO.

Part of that is expressing to elected folk that some of us are not unreasonably scared nor are some of us unreasonably reassured by plain stupid responses to exposed or even successful attempts to kill us.

uhh..not good at all, but what is your point? that the tsa does a bad job and provides no secruity? then again, how many american airliners have been brought down by a terrorist act in the last 5 years?

if you don't want to have your personal liquids taken, check them. buy new ones. leave last week's at the hotel. fedex them ahead. but unless the tsa decides it is ok, there is no way you are bringing them onto a plane we share.

by the way, that post was pretty poor, lacking any semblance of a point.

I disagree, our inteligence services already do that. I will refuse to be questioned about my travel plans on domestic flights- it's none of the government's business. If you're implying racial profiling, it's been shown that it doesn't work.

nope, only if the supreme court, tsa, federal gov't, et al says so...but maybe you can join patrickhenry's revolution...

walmart must be having a sale on muskets today

First off, I really like this idea. However, as others have said, you do not represent everyone (differing views + FT is a business). Perhaps better phrasing would be something akin to "I'm a member of the FT community?" That said, I feel you represent me better than Tom DeLay did. Of course, that's not saying much.

Very well said. How are you peach front?

But what abou the man who expects his Govt to trample upon freedom of others to further hs own? Meaning "Don't harass me, harass him. I don't look like a terrorist"