I didn't think your point was that shoe screening was a waste of time and has an abysmal return on bad guys caught for as much as is spent on it.

And you are aware that airlines make a lot of money hauling cargo between cities, and especially so on international flights, right? It's not just suitcases going down below, but the post office and other businesses. On some flights, the cargo they haul can make the flight profitable, even if it's not fully loaded with pax.

United has a website where you can ship cargo with them.

http://www.unitedcargo.com/

And they are not the only ones that offer this service.

More planes have been brought down by things exploding down below than ever were with shoes.

Sigh...

There are numerous ways to bring an amount of explosives equal or greater than that which will fit in ordinary pair of shoes that will not be detected by the current methodology. A simple one is in a hat (either regular hat or religious head covering), which is not required to be removed. A more complicated one is sealing it inside an inert container and inserting it into a body cavity.

Puffers and ETD (of hands, clothes, etc.) would have a chance of catching these, but there is no guarantee. If the explosives were packed into an inert container by someone other than the carrier, there would be nothing to puff upon.

The fetish-like focus on ordinary shoes with an extremely low probability of carrying explosives in the presence of these substantial additional holes is silly.



Sigh...

In your "perfect world" air travel would be an even more miserable process for frequent travelers who would be forced to check bags, thus losing many bags and their contents since the airlines are incapable of running a reliable baggage service and the TSA is incapable of developing a process for either screening bags (e.g., in owner's presence) or for screening their employees (for criminal nature) that will prevent theft from baggage. In addition, passengers would be subject to more physical violation and frustrating delays than they are now by all these "full-body patdowns." And not a single terrorist attack a flight to, from, or within the US in the last 20+ years (maybe in my lifetime, but I don't have good memory of the pre-1985 period) would have been stopped by these procedures (including 9/11; hijackers were not carrying prohibited items, so full-body searches would have made no difference).

Punishing American passengers is not the answer. Killing, punishing, and deterring terrorists by threatening their cause, their families, and their culture, is the answer. But alas, the US has become so weak since 1945 that the plurality opinion seems to be that it is better to mistreat and punish our own citizens than to identify and to kill an enemy.

Further, in this perfect world stuff will still get by. All one has to look at is the amount of contraband that is able to get into jails and prisons. It is amazing the amount and type of stuff that people are able to stuff in various orifaces. Full pat-downs are not going to find them. Nor will "lift and spread" find them. In fact anything short of a full body x-ray (not backscatter) and MRI you will be able to sneak a lot of stuff in. Unless one is willing to submit to that kind of invasive searches, then one has to admit contra-band will get in.

Once you admit that contraband gets in you have to perform a risk analysis. i.e. what level of risk am I willing to accept, what contraband items represent a crediable threat given the other changes that have been made. Once that determination has been rationally made, then you implement your procedures.

yawn.

How about we have all passengers travel naked with no carryons and be strapped into straightjackets and tranquilized as soon as they get on the planes? This way we can ensure that anyone with mad Jackie Chan martial arts skilz doesn't take over an airliner.

God I'm glad I'm making progress towards eventually flying on private aircraft. (yes, I know the feds are taking over it, too, but at least they're likely not to get as far)

Just don't remove them
 

[QUOTE=Confederate Hokie]I purchased some medical, disposable shoe covers that I plan to carry in my laptop case so when I remove my shoes, I can put a pair of these on until I get to the other side. They're made of Tyvek so they shouldn't set off any alarms, bells or whistles.
Confederate,

At the risk of being put on the NoFly list, I will report that I have NEVER taken off my shoes at a security checkpoint unless I was sitting down and keeping my feet elevated while they sent them through the scanner. I decided to do this the first time I watched an airport employee take off his extremely smelly and dirty shoes and walk through in his equally smelly, dirty socks. I think it is a disgusting, useless and indefensible charade and sometimes a power play which is not even a requirement but a "recommendation". Therefore, I usually mention that I have a sore toe, gout, or plantar fasciitis (abscess might be good too) and will accept secondary if required. Early on, this resulted in one or two brief delays for my "massage", but lately they just usher me through and swab my shoes with a clean felt pad (shining them in the process, btw) and I'm on my way. My belief is that if everyone did this they would not have the time or staff or clean pads to do this on everyone and they would stop "recommending" shoe removal to everyone. Having said that, I certainly do not wear cowboy boots, but somehow I doubt that you do either.... :cool:

LMAO :D Not hardly. I look like a old hippie when I fly. I dress for comfort on a plane. Comfortable, ragged jeans, golf shirt and ratty old tennis shoes.

In my old job several years ago, I flew in a suit and wingtips. Not too bad on a short haul, but a real pain (literally) on longer flights.

I don't usually complain about taking my shoes off so I can get done and on my way. I just hate walking on those carpets. Some airports you feel like you need a shower just walking thru some areas. :td:

[QUOTE=swise]yawn.

How about we have all passengers travel naked with no carryons and be strapped into straightjackets and tranquilized as soon as they get on the planes? This way we can ensure that anyone with mad Jackie Chan martial arts skilz doesn't take over an airliner.

Here is a better idea. Let not screen anyone, just give everyone a 9mm with their boarding pass then when they land they give it back to the airline for the next passenger

Actually, if you think about it, that might not be too terrible of an idea. Sure, a gun's going to get into a few wackos' hands. At the same time, if they know that everyone else has a gun and could just easily blow their heads off as they could, it might keep them better behaved.

[QUOTE=tuner] ^ Anyone remember that classic "All in the Family" episode where Archie went on TV to advocate this very same thing? ;) :p

[QUOTE=iluv2fly]I would have worried he'd have used it on Edith or Meathead. :D

Agreed. :)

Up until the early 80's it was common practice for pilots to carry handguns onboard. There are a handful of reports here and there of pilots using them to successfully neutralize a dangerous situation onboard. There are no reports to my knowledge of the guns finding their way into the wrong hands and resulting in any sort of violence.

Granted, being able to carry concealed onboard a plane won't address threats such as explosives being detonated or ground-to-air missiles. But TSA doesn't address these threats either, as our quaker buddy proved a while back with the Southwest planes.

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That works too!

Maybe just giving back real knives with dinner service in C and F would be a good start. :)

This last Sat in ATL I was told by a TSA Barker that all footware has to go thru the Xray. How can it go thru the Xray if I don't take it off? Yes I reported them. When not happy with the responce for the supervisor I reported the station to the TSA.

This is why I do not fear the TSA Barkers and will argue with them.

That's interesting, I was at the SFO RCC a week ago, where a guy walked in carrying dog feces in his hand. He said "Look what I almost stepped in!"